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Prostitution legalization

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Affairs' started by misterplano9, May 10, 2022.

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  1. Athenea

    Athenea Some dream of a beautiful world, others create it. Staff Member

    We do not know how many people are threatened by a mafia because these people, fearing for their lives and the lives of their families, will not say anything. A mafia will be wherever there is money to be made quickly, prostitution, trafficking in human beings, child abuse, now, at this moment it already exists. You don't have to be born in any city in Italy and I didn't say anything about Italy. But in the news it is surprising how many ramifications mafias like the Russian one, for example, have, even close to governments. They have a lot of money and money is a temptation and if they don't get results with money, there is always violence. Not having information about coercion does not mean that coercion does not exist.
     
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  2. Athenea

    Athenea Some dream of a beautiful world, others create it. Staff Member

    Let's not expect that the mafias that control the whole world of prostitution, by a simple legalisation, five minutes after the law is passed, will say, we have no more business, let's look for an 8 hours a day job.
     
  3. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    I used to work "Special Victims" at NYCDA and "Major Crime" at AUSA. I know the argument you are trying to make. And too many people think reality is closer to Taken than it really is. In the US, there is a decidedly NOT mob run businesses. Somehow? It functions just fine in Nevada. And the "mob is not threatening them and the real people in charge".
     
  4. borabora

    borabora Moderator Staff Member

    Some men in this world live by principle - "I just should try/explore it by myself..."
    So, being (rarely) as a consumer, with prostitutes, both at Reeperbahn in Hamburg;
    and Red Light District in Amsterdam - I should say - I was not thinking there at all about
    cruel mafias, and revolution... :) Because - here it is LEGAL...
    I think so - if there is an urgent demand amongst customers / both men and women!/,
    there should be a possibility for trade/market...
     
  5. Athenea

    Athenea Some dream of a beautiful world, others create it. Staff Member

    I wasn't talking about TV, just read the news.
     
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  6. Athenea

    Athenea Some dream of a beautiful world, others create it. Staff Member

    Basing everything on demand is not a good idea, it may work with goods, but here we are not talking about goods, we are talking about people. Reducing the problem to a few places where prostitution seems, I insist, seems because we do not know the reality that it is exercised freely, when we know that prostitution is controlled by mafias, is not covering the whole problem. Legality will not end the mafias, they will only change their tactics. They make millions of dollars a day, they won't quit. Just remember Odette's publication, with the reality of women who are prostitutes in a legal country with prostitution.
     
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  7. Athenea

    Athenea Some dream of a beautiful world, others create it. Staff Member

    We could talk about three points, the trafficking of human beings for sex, the abuse of minors and the prostitution of adults. If there already exist in two of them, human trafficking and child abuse, laws to eradicate them, police forces exclusively for these cases, agreements in all countries to prevent them and it has not been achieved because the mafias get millions of dollars, why should we think that with adult prostitution, which also produces millions of dollars, they would give up to continue getting that money for a simple piece of paper that says that prostitution is legal?

    Neither illegal prostitution nor mafias have been eradicated in countries where prostitution is legal.
     
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  8. borabora

    borabora Moderator Staff Member

    More about the main theme - prostitution >
    as I understand the problem - there are two ways -

    1. Make it LEGAL / and accept prostitutes as sex workers, with taxes, social and medical care, insurance etc./
    2. Let it be ILLEGAL, underground / and do not accept illegal prostitutes as sex workers, with taxes, social and medical care etc./

    Because - this oldest in world profession exists /illegally/ even in strict Muslim countries.
    And - in both cases - Legal or illegal - mafia still controls prostitution money...
     
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  9. Athenea

    Athenea Some dream of a beautiful world, others create it. Staff Member

    3.- Information: To offer information to all women about possible cases of violence, abuse, rape, illnesses before prostitution. Offer women a job and that in that freedom and with all the real information about what prostitution really is, they can freely decide what they want to do. And most importantly, social education campaigns so that society understands that if a woman is a prostitute she should be respected, that she is not a toy, she is a human being, that paying for her is not being her owner and master, that society understands that a woman is not a THING that can be bought.

    But we come back to the same point, in none of these three cases did the mafias that control the whole world of prostitution give up their incredible profits.
     
  10. Star_of_sea

    Star_of_sea Collector of ephemeral moments.

    Athenea and Odette, my opinion on the legalisation of prostitution is exactly the same.

    Many women are forced by personal circumstances or by mafias into prostitution and that will not disappear with the law. A law that says that a woman's pussy, that a woman's vagina is a place of work is unacceptable to me, a woman is not just a pussy. There cannot be complete fiscal control, a brothel can say that it has had 10 clients and in reality it has had 100. A law must protect the majority of people, especially the most vulnerable and prevent this situation of vulnerability that makes them victims of those who want to make money from them from continuing to exist and the mafias will continue to make money, nobody will confront them out of fear. On the other hand, it has been said that prostitutes must have medical checks to avoid illnesses and this is not acceptable either, because it reduces the prostitute to an object in a perfect state of use, as well as reducing her to a second inferior state because of this control. Clients must also provide medical certificates from the same day that they are perfectly healthy, that they are not carriers of any disease, equal conditions and obligations for prostitute and client. Not all diseases are transmitted by semen or discharge, many are transmitted by saliva, sweat, respiration, skin...
     
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  11. Athenea

    Athenea Some dream of a beautiful world, others create it. Staff Member

    Estrella de Mar, what you said is very important, because it says in what sense people think of prostitution, the submission of women. It has been repeated several times that the woman has to have a disease control, but nobody has talked about the same control for the client, forgetting that if a prostitute gets sick, it means that a client has infected her. This shows that the law is sexist and that it wants the prostitute to be an object that is always desirable for the client. That is a very important point. All the obligations for the prostitute, all the pleasure for the client. Besides, they say that it is for the good of the prostitute, so that she is healthy and doesn't get diseases, the best way is to prevent a disease, not to cure the disease. And the diseases are infected by the clients. Legalise prostitution yes, but all clients must provide a daily medical certificate that they do not have any disease. This is the way to protect prostitutes, preventing them from getting infected, not curing them afterwards. And not all diseases are curable.
     
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  12. Charles Fourier

    Charles Fourier Proud incest advocate

    Odette: Sure that's really feminist to essentialize women just like patriarchy do, to refuse to hear what some women said (that they choose this job willingly), to slutshame, to negate right for women to do what they want with their body (another time you're hand to hand with reactionaries and patriarchy, you're in the same ground than those who repeal Roe vs Wade)...

    It was an error to legalize by giving it to capitalist private sector, that exist to make money, like they do in most countries where that's legal: problem come from here, there should be a strict public control and ownership. How can a mafia control prostitution money if that's state own? Nearly impossible.

    And there is many proofs that prohibition laws do little to fight against crime against women and in fact degrade conditions of life for those who prostitute, willingly or unwillingly: what should give the legal action is interest of prostitutes themselves, to help those who want to quit and to let those who want to continue to do it in a safe and protected way.

    In every work, you use your body. I don't see how fact that part of the body used is vagina or penis change anything. That's kind of naive view and a paralogism.

    Capitalists always abuse workers to make more money. Prostitution is just the same as any other work on that ground (and particularly like other jobs where women are in majority). Workers should organize to fight suit or not criminals corporate leaders and the state and the allies should help them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2022
  13. Odette

    Odette No one can convey what they do not feel

    I also share the same opinion, in all words. Very right, Star, my love. A client can have any disease, but no obligation to have a medical control. And the prostitute without knowing if the client who walks through the door is healthy or sick, if when she kisses her children she will also be infecting them or their parents or friends. It only matters that prostitution exists, that women continue to be one more consumer object of capitalism. And if it gets infected, we remove it and put another prostitute, there are many women.
     
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  14. Brutus58

    Brutus58 Trusted.Member

    All the postings here always assume that the prostitutes are women. There are male prostitutes, maybe not as many, but they are there. Same problems/issues.
     
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  15. Odette

    Odette No one can convey what they do not feel

    It is not the same, a man has more strength than a woman. And it is not the same to enter the body of a person, to enter your body. Is not the same. Being a dentist is not the same as being a client.:D:D
     
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  16. Charles Fourier

    Charles Fourier Proud incest advocate

    I mention that there is male and non binary prostitutes in a post earlier but well people here don't take it into account, that's true.

    Oh well another essentialist cliché!
     
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  17. amiraj

    amiraj Trusted.Member

    Khudos. Very well written. It reaffirms that prostitution is the continuation of the slavery of women. Though the said "modern" thinks that "my body my right" and akin to prostitution, they become a "sugar" baby, but EOD, they are reduced to slavery.
     
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  18. amiraj

    amiraj Trusted.Member

    Mafia/organised brothel or no mafia/organised brothel, even if women does individually, EOD she is reduced to a "fuck meat" (Sorry for the word, but failing to recall a softer word). A degradation of a human life, IMHO, no matter whatever way ones look at it. Liberalism or feminism or wokism... none can justify the degradation.
     
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  19. Athenea

    Athenea Some dream of a beautiful world, others create it. Staff Member

    The situation was very simple. If a person has a monthly salary of 1,000 dollars and his company pays him 995 dollars a month, he immediately protests to get paid those 5 dollars. It is very childish to think that people who are earning millions of dollars a month would give up all that money simply because prostitution is legal. We talk about a small part of women who do it freely and with that shield, we forget the thousands of women who are trafficked into prostitution and we have the illusion that legalising prostitution will make these women happy in prostitution, when they were taken to brothels under false pretenses. The mafias make millions from these deceived women and they do not give up these profits. In Europe, an advanced continent in terms of laws and rights, human trafficking still exists and cannot be eradicated. If a person does not give up 5 dollars, let's not think that the mafias gave up millions of dollars. People talk a lot about feminism, but it is not that word, the word is feminine dignity.
     
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  20. Incs

    Incs Account Deleted

    This argument seems inconsistent with your goals. When prices fall, supply will, too. Lower prices for prostitution equals fewer prostitutes. That's just basic economics. Additionally, it becomes less attractive for criminals to operate in the field because profit margins are smaller. This means that fewer women will be trafficked, forced, or otherwise abused. The end result is that prostitution will increasingly only be offered by women who really want to do that job rather than, say, clean toilets. Isn't this what you would want?
     
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