Religion

True but catharism and some other religions (manicheism, bogomilism...) were influenced by gnostic ideas.

Also i was mainly using catharism as a exemple there can be a religion really decentralized without a true church or organisation.

 

Please don't confuse, (or determine)
Christian with Catholic.

Catholic has declared that they are the only true Christian, but that is incorrect.

Not all Christians are either Catholic or Protestant.
The original Christian, at the beginning and to today are independent of any organized group.

It is the Catholics to whom you refer as the oppressor, not all Christians.

It is the Catholic church which has waged war against others, not Christians.

 

I say Christians not just as Catholics. Protestants oppressed some people too. They all did. Orthodox did too. All branches of the Christian Faith did it.

 

I'm an atheist. I consider all religions man-made, false, and dangerous. Sure, I could be wrong about the existence of gods, just as about anything else. But the idea of god is as plausible to me as the existence of Santa Claus: not at all. That's why I call myself an atheist rather than agnostic. I'm not agnostic about the existence of Santa Claus, I actually believe this being does not exist. The same is true for gods. There is no evidence for their existence, but plenty of evidence that humans made them up: out of ignorance, out of fear, or to deceive others to gain power and money. Religions play a major role in creating authoritarian regimes. They might one day become the downfall of mankind.

 

That is true, but the Protestants did not wage murderous war against whole nations like the RCC did.
There were, and still are, Protestant groups who oppress their own and others they have control over.

Please understand that the Christian church is not just Catholic and Protestant. The Independent Christian churches have been
around since the ascention of Jesus Christ. The Independent is not Protestant. They never "protested" against the RCC as they
were never part of, and still not part of, organized religion.
(Note, some if the Independents churches have banded together in the past 2 centuries, thereby establishing an organized
religion. Two different ones. The Conservative Baptist and the American Baptist. But the remaining independent churches
have refused to join, and rightfully so.)

 

Religions bring more troubles than it solves

 

Could you elaborate on that statement, please? Could you provide concrete cases of the evils of the Catholic Church? But from the present day, let's not go back centuries, we are in the year 2022. If you are a person who studies history, you know that the essential rule is not to extract ancient events from their historical, social and moral context and judge them by today's society and laws. If we do not do so, this would be a situation of madness, there is no country that from today's perspective of laws, does not deserve to be condemned for its past, no country at all.

 

Another time, nobody's talking about catholic church but you immediatly jump on it.

 

We have already dealt with this issue. Honestly, it's a bit boring to have to keep repeating the same thing.

1) If a priest abuses minors he should pay for it, but not be lynched, he should be judged. So any of us, if we were accused of a crime, would demand a fair trial, not a lynching. The Pope himself has apologised and acknowledged the problem. And there are many trials taking place on that issue. But everyone wants a lynching and that should not be allowed.

2) What must be avoided at all costs is to generalise this attitude among all priests, which is happening and many people want it to be that way. There is also child abuse among teachers and nobody has the idea of closing all the schools in the world and accusing all the teachers in the world of abusing their pupils because a group of teachers abuse their pupils. Nobody would say that the family should be eliminated because there are parents who abuse their children and therefore the figure of the father, mother and siblings should be eliminated worldwide because a group of parents and siblings abuse their minor relatives. It should be investigated which priests have had such an attitude and be brought to trial, just as it should be investigated only the teachers and parents who are accused of abuse.

3) Abuse is a criminal offence, although civil remedies can be sought. The basic difference is that in criminal proceedings the defendant is liable with his freedom and in civil proceedings with his money. At the very least, these priests should go to prison, if some trickery has been used to avoid facing the civil liability for the illegal act, then, at least in Spain, a new trial for fraudulent bankruptcy should be brought.

 

If I read correctly you said religions and within that group is the Catholic religion, I only asked for clarification about a specific religion. It is as if he said that all cars have mechanical problems and I asked him what mechanical problems Fords have. It would be a different matter if Milahot said that all religions create more problems than they solve and I asked him why he doesn't like to travel by plane. It could also be that Milahot said that all religions except Catholicism cause more problems than they solve, then I would understand your input, your complaint. But if you said religions in general, I don't see the problem with asking for clarification about a particular religion, it is within your statement.

 

the Rwanda genocide, the Church had many critics about that one
and I never said that "all religions are bad except catholics", nor the contrary. I said that ALL religions are bad lol

 

Yes, on that point I have to agree with you, the actions of the Church in Rwanda were completely immoral and indecent and I agree with you. The Church itself has already apologised and several priests have been tried. But I fully agree with you, those riffraff, those scoundrels had an action that should be judged first by men and pay for their crime and then, if they really believe in Hell, they deserve it for all eternity with the worst punishments and the most infinite pain they can suffer for all eternity. On that particular point, I admit, I agree with you, I think exactly as you do.

 

I disagree 100% but....

Just a bullet for your gun if you want one,Mila. and for @Star_of_sea , not about the RCC.

Said one atheist to another;
" I never saw a Baptist minister, who upon coming out of one of the flock's house, wasn't either picking his teeth, or zipping his pants".

 

in what do you disagree? Don't just say "I disagree" but explain lol

 

I was disagreeing on the "all religions are bad".

It is not the religion itself per say, but some bad apples that have to try to prove to the world they are the "right" kind of member in their church, synagogue, or temple.

The Catholics who have to berate all other Christians because they aren't Catholic, so therefore they aren't Christians.

Protestants who have to berate the Catholics for their Saints and the the Mass being just a "ritual".

The Baptist who claim that no body but them are going to Heaven, and are more than glad to tell you that.

The LGBTQ+ groups (yeah-i deem that a religion of sorts) who have to push their beliefs that even all, no matter their age,
need to declare that everyone except what they do, and push that you are a "hater" .

The Muslims who think it's their god's will that they kill everyone who won't convert to their beliefs.

The Hindi who believe karma is an excuse to do wrongful acts against someone because it they had good karma, the victim wouldn't
be in position to be taken advantage of.

The corporate CEO's who's worship of money (Capitalism is their religion) manifests a greed that destroys peoples livelihood
all in order to gain riches that they could never spend.
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In the contrast, "good religion beliefs are;
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The good Catholics, they have a deep belief in their doctrine, and are willing to share it if you ask.

The good Protestants, they understand if it wasn't for Martin Luther, their doctrine came from a Catholic base.

The good Baptists who understand that all who believe in the deity of Christ is to be celebrated with all Christians,
Catholic, Protestant, whoever, are Brothers and Sisters in the Family of Christ and rejoice with them all.

The good LBGTQ+ who understand that they don't have to preach to the world that they like sex with the same gender.

The good Muslims who understand that they will live a more peaceful life within themselves if they do the correct
jihad, which is the one they have personally in order to make themselves a better person.

The good Hindi, who wants to do as much good as they can so their own karma allows them to reach a higher, better
level of existence.

The good Corporate CEO/business owner who understands that everyone benefits, including the company, if the employees
are paid a good wage and do what they can to keep moral high.