Israel Palestine

first, their death is just because hamas hide behind them and sacrifise them.
second, from where you know that 20000 children died? just from what hamas say, why would you believe in terrorist onganization's data?
of course they fake their data

 

IDF shot the missiles.
But of course, you listen to IDF propaganda

 

I think this issue is exceptionally complicated.

I think empathy cannot be single sided, you cannot feel empathy for loss on one side and then disregard loss on the other.

I think people forget Hamas is an Islamic extremist terrorist death cult, they regard non Muslims as sub human, I think a quick read of the brutality and barbarism of the Oct attacks is needed to fully understand the animal that is Hamas. Their belief is that no Muslims suffer when they are killed in the war against Israel. It is only the Palestinian people who suffer as a result of both hamas and Netanyahu's promise to regain all of Israel.

Israel does understand what they face which is why they have a disproportionate reaction. They are also a democracy so they are affected by the pitfalls of population politics.

I think the West is also in a phase of moralistic high horse politics which makes us as a population, incapable of assessing intricacies of extremely complex issues coupled with a childlike inability to accept outcomes that are not 100% as they view they should be. This leads to a general tribalist movement, witch-hunt mentality.

I used to be massively pro Palestine. But I have read a lot and now have fallen onto, it is what they make of it. The extremists muslims will not rest until there are now Jews in Israel, extremist israelis won't res until the Israel of David is reunified.

So both sides screaming, from the mountain to the sea. Both sides with a right to exist and an unwillingness to give that right to the other.

 

But HAMAS gets recruits because of Israeli brutality. IDF are animals. They hit civilians on purpose, to pish them into HAMAS arms, so they csn justify their war by sayinh "they are all evil" even if its THEIR FAULT Palestinians are joining HAMAS in the first place

 

This is a religious war, there is no right side. Hamas is an extremist Islamic terrorist organisation that is essentially a death cult. They get fighters from everywhere,former ISIS fighters were a big one. Hamas justify all of their actions through the veil of martyrdom. If Muslims die in the war they go to paradise as martyrs. If non believers die they go to hell.

Israel is an extremist Jewish homeland country. Everything is justified in protecting the homeland and the Jewish state. Everything beyond protecting Israel and Israelis is secondary. That is their mentality.

There is no right side.

I think Oct attack is evidence of the nature of hamas. If Israel intelligence let it happen or if they just failed, the way Hamas butchered and degraded their victims was done on their own terms.

In war, the side that wins is the side that is willing to lower itself to the most heinous and disgraceful acts of violence. War is a race to the bottom of that hole. And Hamas could easily win.

Hamas launches rockets from schools and hospitals because the people within them are subsidiary to their holy war. Israel bombs those schools and hospitals because protecting Israeli children is more important than Palestinians. Nobody asks why the death cult is endangering children.

Anyway, they're as bad as each other, and the Palestinian people will always be paying the bill.

 

IDF is a death cult too, targeting civilians, children, women. I never said HAMAS were good guys, far from it, but its israeli brutality that allows them to get recruits

 

I wouldn't think they fit the classification of death cult. IDF is just overly aggressive, indiscriminate and without mercy. They try to limit their own casualties. They do not view life as a transitory state to paradiso or infernum. Just as exclusionary us and them.

But you are arguing on the basis of morals and morals are a tricky thing because this war is base on fundamentalist religious views. The Muslim Hamas believes no other religion may be in control because their laws must prevail or they are not muslim. The Jews believe that God gave them Israel. Which one is right?They are not universal. We should know. You believe that only Israel is wrong. I'm saying, yes Israel is wrong, but so is Hamas. The people who are paying for it are the little people who do not have any power. The last man on the totem pole.

Does Israel murder children, yup, and to some extent, Hamas shares the blame by actively positioning themselves behind them in many circumstances.

Boil it down to an instance between two people as an analogy.

 

I did say HAMAS is wrong too. But Palestinians are the victims, stuck between IDF slaughtering them and HAMAS recruiting them because they are desperate

 

Yes, and far worse. It is an absolute travesty, but it's like having 2 dogs that will kill each other that love next door to one another. Occasionally they break through the fence and eventually they will kill each other.

There are people who hate IDF, and then others who hate Palestine. It doesn't matter in the end. Children will die regardless.

 

You say Palestine and HAMAS as if they were one, tho. They are not. HAMAS got power in Palestine only because of IDF brutality

 

Hamas is ruling Palestine they act in its name. They are completely separate. Just as Iran is not the ayatollah. Unfortunately they utilise the power and act as proxy for the nation.

 

HAMAS rules Palestine because Palestinians are afraid of IDF, and they hate them for all their crimes. For every orphan, caused by IDF, its a new recruit wanting revenge for IDF's bloodthirsty, genocidal colonial state

 

Then we can justify everything.
Hamas cares for nothing except murdering kuffar regardless of how many "martyrs" they create and IDF have created a policy of hyper aggressive over reaction. As I said this argument runs in circles. Who is to blame? A state that has decided that it will do anything to kill its enemies. Or the fundamentalist Islamic extremist organisation hat actively puts innocents in the firing line knowing full well that they will be murdered and capitalising off those murders.

They are both wrong and saying IDF is just to blame, well, I think that's short sighted. The problem when you see the situatio. Like this, in this no goodie or baddie way, there is no solution. The solution is that no matter what anyone does, Hamas will always want Israel to be destroyed, and Israel will always bomb in retaliation, and Hamas will use children's hospitals and Israel will bomb the hospital to kill Hamas. Wash, rinse, repeat...so, honestly, the situation is totally fucked.

 

I did say IDF is not the only one to blame, do you even read what I write? I just said that IDF are HELPING HAMAS with theit brutality

 

Absolutely, Hamas gives them ample opportunity for propaganda in favour of military action. But they are responsible for the rockets. The brutality is IDFs, they pull the trigger in the end.

But Hamas also capitalises immensely on the deaths of Palestinians. Just look at the leaders, living as millionaires in UAE. That's all donations to the "plight of Palestinians". Using dead children they actively used as shields to raise an army.

There is so much money to be made killing Palestinians, its just so disheartening. A cause worthy of losing faith onthe morality of leaders.

 

So yeah, Palestinians are victims of both IDF inhuman attacks and HAMAS capitalizing on it and using it to recruit more people.
So IDF keeps doing it, because they want Palestinians to join HAMAS because they can then justify the genocide

 

I'm not certain where the genocide rhetoric comes in. As genocide usually results in severe decrease in population while Palestinian population in westbank and gaza is bigger than ever.

IDF wants to claim the land, they are not systematically murdering a culture or people. I don't think they care where the Palestinians are so long as the aren't in Palestine.

 

they bomb hospitals and schools. They bomb appartments. And they want to remove ALL the Palestinians from the area. Not all genocides are killing, some are cultural, or by moving the population