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Vaccine passport

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Affairs' started by neon zone, Apr 10, 2021.

?

Do you support vaccine passport for Covid-19?

  1. yes

    34.8%
  2. no

    63.0%
  3. other (please explain)

    2.2%
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  1. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

     
    Brutus58 likes this.
  2. Charles Fourier

    Charles Fourier Proud incest advocate

    Personnaly i'm fully vaccinated, pro vaccine too but against vaccine pass because it can create discrimination and reduce our liberties.
     
    neon zone and leanback39 like this.
  3. changoTor

    changoTor Trusted Member

    I'm fully vaccinated, and I don't have a problem with being required to prove it.

    I feel that if people truly think this is the first step towards "Big Brother" or "The Mark of the Beast (hell yeah, Maiden,!)" then throw away the tracking device you willingly purchase, charge, put all your personal info in and carry around all day every day. Your mobile phone.

    Your phone has GPS, your email, voice, texts, pictures etc. all in a handy little pocket computer. It can tell anyone with the right knowledge and tools exactly what you do, with who, when and where.

    None of that data is truly secure or truly safe from government influence or interference, and yet, people make a choice in that tradeoff of privacy vs. acceptance every day.

    People accept the tradeoff of all their information being out there floating around in the cloud because they get the great benifit of being part of a network (society) that has a vast number of benifits to being a part of. If a person choses that the intrusion isn't worth the benefit, then they can also choose not to take advantage of a technologically advanced society.


    Also, people who have chosen not to vaccinate have been discriminated against for decades. You don't want to inoculate you kids against TB, Polio etc,? then you have every right to home school them, because you can't enroll them in publicly funded schools. You don't want to be called for jury duty? Then you can't get a driver's license in some places.

    I'm as "no government in my shit" as the next guy, but I do believe in science, and societies have to make decisions that have the welfare of the majority of their people in mind.

    People that don't want to subscribe to these policies have options. Unfortunately, those options can include losing some of the perks of living in that society, or the option of moving somewhere where you don't feel oppressed by the policies of your new home.

    Societies are made up of laws. Some make sense to some people and not others. Are they just or unjust? That's a perspective issue.

    The point is that, you can't make everyone happy all the time. If you did, that's called an Anarchy. And I don't think anyone is really interested in that option.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  4. neon zone

    neon zone Trusted Member

    Why would every criminals who are using them not be found, and why do LE say they are hard to trace because of Tor?
     
  5. MilaHot

    MilaHot Account Deleted

    I support the vaccine passeport
     
    orly6666 and changoTor like this.
  6. neon zone

    neon zone Trusted Member

    Many do use VPN while usually those devices.

    Most of our family use it

    Privacy is not only about encryption, if there are only a few people who always uses encrypted connection then you could be identified by brute force. if you use a mixture and only use it when it would be effective then you will be in a collection of billions that will be far too time consuming to brute force. A example of bad use is, if you use VPN for Facebook and your post are public then Facebook has linked your account to the VPN, if you use that same VPN for anything else it can be known by the government. Using VPN made your privacy worse.

    This was in the past, it could be changed for covid if people don't believe the vaccine helps (see my previous replies about break through cases :))

    There is no place mandates are happening on every country on the globe, in any situation you have a choice to fight or flight, for this we chose to fight.

    You do not need to make everyone happy, but you can't force a large vocal minority, their voices spread faster and louder then politicians and doctors.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
    Bierminister likes this.
  7. Bierminister

    Bierminister Trusted Member

    You mustn't go to the barbar ... but the vaccination is supposedly voluntary.
    All leisure offers are locked for you ... but the vaccination is supposedly voluntary.
    Posted arguments against the vaccination on facebook or youtube are deleted after a few minutes ... but the vaccination is supposedly voluntary.
    You are bullied and got treated badly because you don't want the vaccination ... but the vaccination is supposedly voluntary.
    You can lose your job because you are not vaccinated ... but the vaccination is supposedly voluntary.
    ...
    ...
    ...
     
    Dane and Brutus58 like this.
  8. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    So....... Capitalism.

    You dont have a RIGHT to a haircut, movie, Ball Game, violate FB's TOS (and yes they are idiots and delete/suspend over BS).
     
  9. Brutus58

    Brutus58 Trusted.Member

    But what if it's not all BS? When Trump called the Covid virus the "Chinese Virus", he was called a racist. When he said it came from a lab in Wuhan, was called a xenophobe. Now after investigations and probes it is accepted that it did come from that lab as the Chinese COMMUNIST government was weaponizing that virus found in bats. But due to very lax safety standards it got out and millions are now dead. (I HATE COMMUNISTS!!!! My parents taught me that.) Was Trump's comments racist or xenophobic? I would have to say NOT, but accurate information, not the misinformation the mainstream media as well as CNN and MSNBC as well as those left wing nut jobs (read Democratic party) would like you to believe.
     
    Bierminister and Dane like this.
  10. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    Please share those investigations and proof from a Reputable Source naming sources. not Youtube videos with "people who ask not to be named".

    As to the BS I refer to? I will summarize. The full story is in my post ranting about FB. I, basically, posted something that got me a 24 a while back about Standard Deduction and how Trump did not double it (he rolled in another existing item, the Personal Exemption which was almost 4 grand too, so it was 1900 more not 6k more). Got tired of typing Standard Deduction. So I went back to tax law and Tax Accounting classes shorthand of STD. Either the person I was arguing with or their auto thing? Flagged as I said the GUY had an STD. Appealed. Upheld. Said I said he had an STD because the letters were there. My most recent? I said that a woman who was beaten should have killed the guy. The WOMAN (the victim) agreed she should have. "Promoting violence" suspension.
     
  11. Brutus58

    Brutus58 Trusted.Member

    As for my sources, it was CNN. My dad would only watch CNN all day, every day. I visited him every day for hours and had to hear it. Yes I know, CNN is NOT reputable, but that is my source as well as CBS and NBC as well as ABC. I guess you could say that MSNBC gets an honorable mention. The AOL website news section also said the same/similar things.
     
  12. aaaab

    aaaab Trusted Member

    Absolutely not. Think about the consequences 10 years from now - it gives govt the ability to banish individuals from society by simply revoking their vaccine passport. One click of a button and you're gone
     
    Brutus58 likes this.
  13. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    That's a very good point.
     
    Brutus58 likes this.
  14. sienna

    sienna Account Deleted

    i dont really follow the political section here. idk about passports is my answer but i think we should have something
     
    Ausstde likes this.
  15. leanback39

    leanback39 Trusted Member

    Fully vaxxed, but against the pass. It's a step in a really wrong direction.
     
  16. Star_of_sea

    Star_of_sea Collector of ephemeral moments.

    I do not understand the approach that a vaccine can reduce our freedoms and discriminate against us.

    Would we accept a person saying that they feel discriminated against because the government forces them to have a licence to drive a car? Would we want the doctor who treats us in hospital to have no university education because he feels that the government is discriminating against him by forcing him to have a degree and a licence? Would we live peacefully in a building designed by an architect who does not have a degree or drive on a bridge designed by a person who says that he feels discriminated against in relation to someone who does have that degree because of a government regulation?

    Regarding the reduction of freedoms, if someone does not want them, they should live alone in the middle of a desert, because when you live in a society there are many limitations to our freedoms and those limitations are called laws, and these are the ones that allow people to live together. But the problem with this view that laws reduce freedoms, apart from being completely true, is a partial and manipulated view. Laws are not intended to reduce people's freedoms, but to allow coexistence within a group of people, where the common good is given more value than the individual good. If anyone disagrees with this approach, they would have to live alone in the middle of a desert.

    In this particular case, anyone who is not vaccinated should have many limitations imposed on them by the government, not to limit their freedoms, but to protect society. As I have already said, whoever does not want to be vaccinated should not be vaccinated, but should be consistent to the end, that is, if he/she catches COVID, he/she should not go to a hospital because by taking that decision he/she is collapsing a medical system that in all countries is limited, is taking up emergency beds that are necessary for other people, is delaying operations for people who need them to continue living, is appropriating medical resources that are necessary for people. What should not be allowed is that a person who, because of an absurd decision, does not get vaccinated, but then demands medical treatment with nurses and doctors that is needed by another person, for example, with cancer. In Spain, at present, 80% of the people occupying emergency beds and consuming medical resources are people who have refused to be vaccinated. The COVID passport is very necessary, to know who is a responsible person who respects other members of society and who is a stupid person who does not care that he can infect and kill other people around him, appropriating medical resources and leading to the physical exhaustion of doctors who also have families. Without the COVID passport limiting entry to a restaurant, would we be at ease dining if another person at the next table or the waiter with COVID is continually spewing viruses into the air we are breathing?
     
    Ausstde and Incs like this.
  17. Rubber Ducky

    Rubber Ducky Trusted.Member

    Stats from my country:

    85% is vaccinated, 15% is not
    50% of hospital beds is occupied with unvaccinated people. The other 50% is vaccinated. So, 15% is responsible for 50% of the beds. The other 50% has not only covid, but some other disease as well.

    Some more figures from our Healt dept : Vaccinated people are 94% less likely to land in hospital with Covid. They are even 97% less likely to need Intensive Care. Whilst IC is "full", patients who need planable care (as in, a scheduled surgery or something) are being told they need to wait longer.

    In the mean time our government has put all of us in a sort of lockdown. Again. There are voices talking about restrictions for those who did not get their jabs. But some people state this is a form of discrimination of this minority. On the other hand, 85% of us is being held hostage (in lockdown) since 15% refuses.I see we have a healthcare issue. Those in need are not being treated because someone claims their bed. Someone who refuses their jab. Those people have no choice, they suffer because they need surgery and ultimately die because it was too late for them. There are of course no figures, but some of those refusing are responsible for the death of another patient. Because they got the care the other needed. They needed it now and the other needed it on an appointment. Just reschedule the other one.

    The point is, our government has decreased healthcare funding for decades now, and this is the result. Our government, who's task it is to protect us, has failed to put a fail safe in the laws. Things like a mask, quarantine and vaccinations are all just a choice. They are never mandatory.

    So I am a bit fed up with it. Fed up with the 15% not taking a vaccine. Fed up with Government only able to protect all of us by putting all of us in lockdown since addressing the 15% minority is not possible. There is no law that allows them to, and parliament is not ratifying such a law. If there are news items about a possible change, the 15% comes out of their homes and smashes a city center to pieces. Even Nazi Germany and the Jews are used in the narrative.

    I am so fed up I hope we get a next mutation. Omega or something. One that is as transferred rapidly, has a long incubation period and is 80%-95% lethal if you did not have your vaccine. If that won't scare the 15%, I don't know what does. Narrative does not get them vaccinated, neither will laws. The only way out is to let the virus do it's job.
     
    Incs, Dane, Curmudgeon and 1 other person like this.
  18. MilaHot

    MilaHot Account Deleted

    That is why you guys need free healthcare like here in Canada
     
    Incs likes this.
  19. Rubber Ducky

    Rubber Ducky Trusted.Member

    Our vaccine is free of charge. What would this help in our situation?
     
  20. Gramps

    Gramps Trusted.Member

    I am an old guy. So I took both doses and just got the booster. We caught COVID in 20. It sucked bad. Dont want it again
     
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