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The pros and cons of opinions

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Affairs' started by pussycat, Jul 26, 2022.

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  1. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    I'm putting this in "politics" because it undoubtably is political, sooner than later.

    There's an old saying "opinions are like (insert your own body part), everybody has one". True, we all have opinions. Expressing them is something else.
    In many countries - societies - expressing one's opinion may get you arrested, shot, simply disappeared, or possibly stoned to death. I'll disregard these for the moment.
    In the "free world" as we like to call it, freedom of expression is one of the basic tenants, and is expressing one's opinion not "freedom of expression'? But are we free to do so? Should we be?
    [edit], with those older members of society dismissing the opinions of the younger elements as "they'll learn when they grow up", or some such nonsense.
    I had a grandfather who would say "if you want my opinion" (nobody did, but he voiced it anyway), but in fact he wasn't voicing an opinion, he was dictating instruction. He was horribly offended when others didn't just accept his position as gospel, as his was obviously the superior intellect (in his opinion). We've all encountered the type.
    If one where to say "black people are less intelligent than whites", that expression of opinion would today be unacceptable by society, yet 60 years ago it would be met with nods of approval. "Homosexuality is a disease" - you're in trouble for that one, yet not long ago it was accepted as common fact, you didn't dare say otherwise.
    So we're not really free to express all our opinions, are we?

    And what happens when we do? Well, let's examine a current hot topic. Let's say you believe, in your opinion, that abortion is a crime. You listen to a potential political candidate, and they share your opinion. So you vote for them, and so do others, and they get elected, and eventually it isn't an opinion any more, it's a law. But in doing so, you have circumvented the rights of those who held a dissenting opinion.
    See what I mean about becoming political? It always does.

    So when I hear someone say "I'm only voicing my opinion", I take that with a grain of salt.
    Opinions are very dangerous things. In my opinion.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2022
  2. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    Very true.
    Stating "In my opinion" is a nice way to say "you're wrong, here is why I am right" (In many cases, opinion wise).
  3. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    The opposite of your examples are an opinion too. Please acknowledge that.
  4. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    Thank you for your opinion.
    Incs and whitecoffee1 like this.
  5. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    If you won't acknowledge the truth, nothing you say can be believed.
  6. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    Like I said, we've all encountered the type. Thank you for providing the example.
    Dane, TittyKitty and whitecoffee1 like this.
  7. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    Her point is if you disagree with Abortion and that becomes law people who do and need/want one cant get that. The other side of that is, "If it is legalized? Then people who dont like it cant make it ILLEGAL.". One is "my morals ban it!" and the other is "My MORALS ARE NOT THE LAW! People can do things I dont WANT THEM TO!".
  8. TittyKitty

    TittyKitty Communudist Catgirl

    In my opinion, you make a very good observation here @pussycat.

    We are free to express our opinions, but inherent in that is the responsibility to accept differences.

    It is my belief that all rights come with attached responsibilities. Those responsibilities ensure that same right is available to others.

    It is my opinion that too many people these days talk about rights without talking about responsibilities, and it is my opinion that the right does this AT LEAST as much as the left.

    But to side-step all this, opinions are not a given. I have been confused at many points in my life by people insisting that I "must have an opinion" on something in particular... But frequently I don't. If it is a topic I am unfamiliar with, or a topic that has no direct bearing on me, I am quite happy with having no opinion at all.

    If the question is about a minority, then THEY are the ones qualified to form opinions on it. In my opinion.
    Rubber duck 2 likes this.
  9. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    What I meant was that Pussycat made several examples, one of which was that thinking homosexuality is a disease is an opinion. I said the opposite is an opinion too, thinking homosexuality is not a disease. They are both opinions and she refused to acknowledge that. All of her examples were opinions and the reverse of those opinions are opinions too. She only mentioned one side in order to engender a favorable response.
  10. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    While that is "an opinion", her point is, or seems to be this. "When there is fact?" like Blacks are less intelligent or Gay is a disease, which have been medically disproved, "It is dangerous to honor something as "that is YOUR OPINION!" and not fact vs BS.".

    On abortion? There is NO record of a fetus of 6 weeks being "Born" and surviving. So that is not "independent life" no matter what your opinion states. Medical FACTS trump "Personal Beliefs". So personal beliefs should not be LAWS. What is the issue with medical fact, not personal Morals and Opinion being law.

    As to the "well they elected them, they must agree so the majority agrees"? I know SO MANY Conservatives that elected conservatives because of X Y Z, but disagree with A B C. But in their minds? Those people they voted for would never DARE touch A B C in reality. Then are shocked completely when they actually......... do what they said. How many politicians swore they were only banning it for some but not all. Like "Well obviously Danger to the Mother's Life, Incest and Rape". Then passed laws saying "None after 6 weeks! No Exceptions without filing for an exception and waiting on the response!". I forget which state, but one outright said "no exception for ECTOPIC PREGNANCY.". As in outside the uterus. Because their OPINION is that a pregnancy can be carried whether or not it is in the Uterus, safely. Because some quack in the 1910s wrote a paper on it. Forget the DECADES of medicine that says otherwise. In THEIR OPINION it is safe because one doctor 110 years ago said in HIS OPINION it was.
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2022
  11. MilaHot

    MilaHot Account Deleted

    "Opinions" are indeed dangerous.
    And what is 'correct' today may be wrong tomorrow, as society changes. That's why I think the Cancel Culture is stupid. I mean, in USA, they want to remove a lot of statues of Confederate or Southern people, or just historic people, because 'they had slaves' or other stuff like that. But erasing that part of history isn't making things better. And there was a context, too, that people tend to forget. People judge the past with today's bias, and its not fair.

    As for the older people saying that us younger folks we 'learn with time', if only you knew how many time I heard that one lol. But older people don,t realize that us younger folks have more tools than they had in the past, that we can learn as much, if not more, than them ever did. So saying that our youth is a weakness is stupid. We adapt way faster, and we are not as stupid as older people seem to think.
    Rubber duck 2 likes this.
  12. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    Actually the scientific data says otherwise.
    The Pro-Life argument is that since potentially the fetus will become a human being without intervention to stop it, in all practical terms it is a human being. Not that at a specific instant in time, it is incapable of breathing on its own. So it is not the Pro-Life people forcing it to become life, its the Pro-Choice people actively trying to stop it from becoming alive.
  13. MilaHot

    MilaHot Account Deleted

    What scientific data? The data made by white scientists saying that black are 'lesser'? Also, its not that they are less intelligent, its just that most of the time, they don,t have access to the same education, because they live in countries that were exploited by the Colonial powers, and were thus pushed down and stopped from 'growing'.
    Put a white kid and a black kid, from normal families, and give them the same education, and they'll pretty much be the same intelligence level
    Rubber duck 2 and TittyKitty like this.
  14. Eoneon

    Eoneon Trusted.Member

    The problem in not just education but also a good nutrition it causes 70% of education to be lost because people can't pay enough attention when suffering from malnutrition
  15. MilaHot

    MilaHot Account Deleted

    So yeah, if they were given the same chance as more rich countries, they would be the same. After all, a Human is a Human, no matter his color
    Rubber duck 2 likes this.
  16. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    There has been extensive testing on IQ. The results were that on average (not by individuals) the IQ of Blacks were below the average of 100. Further testing showed that the average IQ of Blacks in the U.S. were higher than the average IQ of Blacks in Africa. These are averages of large populations, not by individual cases. Yes you can find a lot of Blacks with IQ's over 100, but there are a lot more Blacks with an IQ under 100, which brings the total average down.

    There are a lot of Whites with an IQ under 100, and there are a lot of Whites with an IQ over 100, so if you cherry pick individual samples, you can find Blacks with a higher IQ than Whites. But averages show a better overall picture.

    The psychologists know this is true, but are reluctant to publicly acknowledge it, because the minor difference in IQ doesn't vastly affect the individuals ability to perform in society and the social backlash that would accompany such a pronouncement would be very detrimental.

    These tests also found that the average IQ of Asians are above 100. And the group with the highest average IQ were Hassidic Jews.

    It takes a large variance in IQ to ensure a difference in performance. A small difference doesn't count for much. Also the value of a human being is not dependent on whether or not his or her IQ is above or below 100. Just some people can't accept that the findings are true.
  17. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    Education has only a minor affect on IQ. Basically, you are born with your IQ. Environmental factors only cause a small change. IQ roughly indicate how well, how complex, and how fast you can learn, not what you have learned.
  18. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    And an ectopic pregnancy will "become life at some point? No. It will burst the tube and kill the mother way before that.
    Incs and pussycat like this.
  19. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    You chose one specific case out of thousands. Not a very good argument.
  20. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    Valid point, but that's not an "opinion". It's a known and proven fact.

    This thread isn't about "abortion", we have others for that.

    Let's try "in some people's opinion, drinking bleach will cure Covid." OK, they're entitled to that opinion if they want.
    But they post a blog saying that in their opinion........and some not too intelligent parent out there says "hey, that's a good idea"........and feeds it to their offspring? Are they guilty of murder? Should the originator of the "opinion" be guilty of (fill in the blank)???

    What's the opinions on that?
    MilaHot likes this.
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