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Pro-Palestinian protests on campuses

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Affairs' started by buffyfan, Apr 28, 2024.

  1. JonJon12

    JonJon12 New Member

    New to this discussion but if Netanyahu could be democratically removed so they can take a stand against this way then doesn't it seem logical to say that the people of Gaza could (or should) do the same with Hamas. Does that not mean that they are in "solidarity" with the rape and murders of October 7 that started this war? Israelis are not the one being harmed on a daily basis and they are probably thinking that hey we do not want another October 7 so why would they be opposed to the guy that is trying to defeat the monsters that started it in the first place. Monsters that still hold hostages and are mutilating and probably raping them on a regular basis. When does it become the people of Gaza's responsibility to tell Hamas to surrender? Do the people of Gaza care that Hamas is stealing the food and medical supplies that the US is delivering from the port that Biden has set up? Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the IDF withdraw from Gaza and the West bank 18 or 19 years ago? So it is not like the IDF all of a sudden went "Hey lets go invade Gaza and kill a bunch of Hamas. Oh and while we are at it lets go kill some civilians too." Had Hamas not attacked it may have been another 18 years of peace. The same can be said for anyone saying that if Israel withdraws then this will be over. They were out for 18 years. No attacks. No civilians being killed.

    If you look at maps for the region the Israeli ones show Gaza and the West Bank. Maps in Gaza and the West Bank show no Israel. That should tell everyone what the ultimate intentions of the Palestinians are. The eradication of the Jewish state and the people with in it.

    Just my thoughts and observations.
     
    Shield Daughter likes this.
  2. Lian

    Lian Friendly One

    Gazans, why would they? HAMAS are the only ones fighting IDF. The WHOLE WORLD ignores their suffering. So why would they stop supporting the ONLY thing fighting the savage IDF killling them?
     
  3. JonJon12

    JonJon12 New Member

    May I ask who do you think started the conflict? Why do you think the Israeli army attacked?
     
  4. Lian

    Lian Friendly One

    Israel started the war DECADES ago when they invaded Palestinian lands, and they kept illegally colonizing evwr since
     
  5. JonJon12

    JonJon12 New Member

    So it sounds like to you nothing that if Israel does anything to defend itself will ever be justified because its existence should not be allowed. Reading though everything you have posted here sounds like you are completely happy with Israel going away and the Jews being killed or forced to leave even the ones whose families have been there for thousands of years consecutively because someone else was there first.
     
  6. Lian

    Lian Friendly One

    Its not about existence should be allowed or not. They exist. Is that Israel should stop colonizing other lands. They have their country, but Gaza isnt theirs, yet they KEEP FUCKING BOMBING CIVILIANS THERE
    If Israel stopped expanding, the war would end. But no, they need more, always more, no matter the cost for the Palestinian civilians
    Israel uses fake arguments to justify their war. "If we dont wipe them out we will be wioed out". No. If Israel just stick to THEIR lands, the war can stop. Sure, they will have to pay reparations to Palestinians, for all their atrocities. But they will have peace. They do NOT have to keep invading and colonizing to survive, they do it oit of greed, because they are a colonial power
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2024
  7. buffyfan

    buffyfan Trusted.Member

    There was never a Palestine. Ever. A Brit colony with a similar name. Again. There was never one. Just "Made up maps" and "Self made passports" that had no legal backing ever.

    And they will pay zero cents in "reparations". They are not a party to that cute court that thinks they have authority in this. They can tell that court "So? Pound sand!".
     
  8. Lian

    Lian Friendly One

    That is the problem. Europeans, Westerners, think they can dictate who exist or who doesn't. Fact is, they've been living there for centuries, even if Westerners don't acklowledge it. They've been here, its their home.
    But then again, denying their existence makes it easier to look away while Israel does exactly what they do, untold atrocities, crimes against Humanity
     
  9. Yuno Riad

    Yuno Riad Trusted Member

    I feel like that's a bit of an unfair argument no? By that argument there was never an Israel and so Israel doesn't deserve to exist (not my personal belief, just showing the unfairness of that argument). Also, with Palestine being recognized by more and more countries along with a bid at UN membership (that'll probably be vetoed but the attempt exists) there exists very little reason to say that Palestine doesn't exist. Of course, a student of law I am not. However, I do dislike the casual dismissal of an entire nation in the support of a nation that can itself be dismissed using the same arguments. The irony of it all is... disappointing.
     
    Lian likes this.
  10. Lian

    Lian Friendly One

    People dismiss their existence so they can turn a blind eye to the war crimes of Israel
     
  11. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    The Palestinians you are referring to were a group of nomadic Arabs that were shunned by the established Arab countries that the British allowed to settle on a territory that the British controlled called Palestine because the other Arabs didn't want them in their own country (sort of the Gypsies of the Arab World). Once they settled there they called themselves Palestinians. When they settled there, there were Jews living there too. The Jews were living in the British controlled Palestine before the country of Israel was established. The so called Palestinians were bad neighbors, the Jews know it and the other Arabs know it too. The Arab Israeli Wars took place because the other Arabs believed they hated the Jews more than the Palestinians. Now most of the Arabs believe they hate the Palestinians more than the Jews.
     
  12. Always-Learning

    Always-Learning Trusted.Member

    I trust you'll forgive my lateness in responding but I have been trying to avoid the political section of the form...

    One thing you need to remember is, Israel did not become a state until 1949. Before that, the Jewish people who make up Israel were scattered all over the world with no nation of their own. Yes, they lived in the area now know as Israel, along with other cultures who shared the territory, but they were by no means the ruling class. In fact, it wasn't until the late 1800's to early 1900's that European Jews first encouraged and organized mass migration to what is now called Israel. And their cause, Zionism, threatened Jews primarily as a nationality by creating religious groups that pushed their agenda.

    As for those who live under the thumb of Hamas, when you live in a terrorist state, and are unsure of whom you can trust, many times you do what you must to keep your family safe. And the real conflict is not about religion, as many would have you believe, but nationalities over secular issues of land and who has the right to claim it. The fact is, up until 1987, when Hamas formed and started pushing extreme Islamism, the conflict was fought by secular groups on both sides. And the conflict its self didn't start until 1948 when the United Nations got together and decided to make Israel a state. Before 1920, the land was known as the Ottoman Palestine territory, before it came under British control.

    The one exception to religion being the cause of the conflict is Jerusalem. It is the third most holy city to the Islam belief and the most holy of cities to the Jewish belief. However, Christianity does not play a role in that conflict since the Jewish faith has never accepted that Jesus was the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Torah. That part was added to gain support for Israel due to the Christian faith being tied to the area. However, what is rarely talked about is the fact that the Gaza Strip has always been controlled by it's neighboring Arab states of Jordan and Egypt. Anwar Sadat, the third president to sever Egypt, was assassinated because he tried to bring peace to the area... So the money that keeps this going also controls who lives and dies as it does in all conflicts.

    So as you can see, the Palestinian people have been pawns to both sides of the conflict. And as long as the Arab states allow groups like Hamas to flourish, and Israel continues to clam more and more land, this conflict will not end.

    Let me close with my personal observation of what we now see in the pro-Palestinian protest happening today... They have no interest in helping the Palestinian people. They have simply found a cause to express their hate for life in general. If their cause were not hidden under the guise of the Palestinian people, it would be hidden in some other cause.
     
  13. Always-Learning

    Always-Learning Trusted.Member

    Your comment about Palestinians being a nomadic group applies to Israel also. In fact, Flavius Josephus (a Jewish/Roman historian born in 37 AD), made a distinction of the fact his group attending a conference on Jewish history originated from Mesopotamia and not Egypt... There was a reason for that but you should read his works for yourself to fully understand why.
     
    Lian likes this.
  14. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

  15. Jack777g

    Jack777g Trusted Member

    Historical arguments in political discussion of things are generally strange, you can always find those who lived here before you.
    Every nation was once barbaric; this has nothing to do with the modern situation.
     
  16. Jack777g

    Jack777g Trusted Member

    English is not my native language, I hope I expressed my thoughts correctly and did not offend anyone.
     
  17. Lian

    Lian Friendly One

    If we use your argument, then Israel doesnt have more rights to their land than Palestinians
     
  18. Always-Learning

    Always-Learning Trusted.Member

    It has everything to do with the present situation. The middle east has never know a time without fighting. And the majority of the fighting has come because of religious difference... That is still at the heart of the problem today. Both sides claim a mound of dirt as one of their most holiest of places and are willing to kill for it. And the desire to wipe each other out is as old as the two religions... The funniest thing about it is they both trace their heritage back to the same person.

    Both the Jew and the Muslim trace their houses back on the female side, not the male. Do you know why? Because Hagar was a sex slave who was impregnated by Abraham and sent away to a far off land with no support of any kind for her and her child. Her son gave life to Mohammad and the Muslim faith. Sara's kid got everything and is credited for the birth of the Jewish religion... And good old Abraham, he came from a family of pagans who lived in Ur... So to distinguish who is more deserving, they use the mother, not the father, because that is the only difference between them. It's also why both religions claim and revere Abraham as the father of their faith... The whole thing is nothing but a giant family feud that has gotten our of hand and caught others up in their lies...

    So before you go off making statement that have no basis, you need to do a bit of studying. In fact, wither you are for the Jew, or the Palestinian, they both tell you to study so you know what you are talking about.
     
  19. buffyfan

    buffyfan Trusted.Member

    Another fun fact. The Palestinian "refugees" were a secondary if not proximate cause of the Lebanese Civil War. Suspected in the assassination of, IMS it was Sedat. That is why, since, the "refugees" are still refused or if taken put in razor wire camps. Not offered full "brotherhood and participation".
     
  20. buffyfan

    buffyfan Trusted.Member

    I am a Jew. And have to say it is sad wars are happening because of Fairy Tales.
     
    Always-Learning likes this.