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Pro-Palestinian protests on campuses

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Affairs' started by buffyfan, Apr 28, 2024.

  1. buffyfan

    buffyfan Trusted.Member

    So we have all heard about these. But I hear SO MANY getting the legality here wrong. So here goes.

    1. A Private University (Northwestern, Columbia, Harvard) are PRIVATE PROPERTY. The only people who have the "legal right" to be on that property are Students, Faculty and Staff. Not even parents have the right to.

    2. Public Universities. SAME. AS. ABOVE. You don't have the right to be on state University land unless you have SPECIFIC BUSINESS there
     
    Akbloke likes this.
  2. Lian

    Lian Friendly One

    What if its students manifesting? Since they study there, they can manifest against israeli brutality
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2024
    Athenea likes this.
  3. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    People have every right to be there if they were invited and no one having sufficient authority to do so asked them to leave.
     
    Lian likes this.
  4. bw19481

    bw19481 Trusted.Member

    The moment they started chanting We Are Hamas, From the River to the Sea, having signs with swastikas and calling for the Final Solution they should have been immediately expelled. If someone started wearing a KKK outfit and chanting death to Jews, Muslims, Blacks, Mexican or Asians they would be kicked out immediately. No difference. When the schools have had to tell Jewish professors and students go home it is not safe here they should have been expelled and arrested for trespassing. And I say that as someone that would defend Muslims just the same. All I hear is words are violence from these loons when a Republican speaks on Campus. Pretty sure a Republican has never called for the extinction of Muslims. These assholes are calling for the genocide of the Jews and people are cheering them on.
     
  5. Lian

    Lian Friendly One

    So when Israeli say they will wipe out Palestinians its fine but not when Palestinians say the same? XD
    And its not a genocide of the Jews, only a war against Israeli. It has nothing to do with their faith but their ACTIONS, aka a Genocide of the Palestinian people
     
  6. bw19481

    bw19481 Trusted.Member

    There may be some Israeli's that say wipe out the Palestinians but it definitely not the governmental policy. Run the numbers. Even if you take the Hamas body counts and the IDF numbers of killed fighters this is the most humane modern heavy fighting action in the history of warfare. It beats all but Desert Storm. In the modern era. The civilian to combatant deaths is absolutely amazing and unheard of. It is a picture of restraint.
     
  7. Athenea

    Athenea Some dream of a beautiful world, others create it. Staff Member

    @bw19481

    Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, "Israel-Hamas war".

    "As of 24 April 2024, over 35,000 people (34,262 Palestinian and 1,410 Israeli) have been reported as killed in the Israel-Hamas war, including 97 journalists (92 Palestinian, 2 Israeli and 3 Lebanese and over 224 humanitarian aid workers, including 179 employees of UNRWA.

    The vast majority of casualties have been in the Gaza Strip: over 34,262 have been killed, 70% of them are women and minors. The accuracy of these figures, as well as the number of women and minors killed, is disputed. In December 2023,Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor estimated 90% of the casualties were civilians, while the IDF put the civilian ratio at 66% of those killed. The death toll comes from the Gaza Health Ministry and the total death toll in Gaza is presumed to be higher than reported, with thousands remaining unaccounted for, including those trapped under rubble".

    "The casualties and damages of the conflict in Gaza up to the 175th day are outlined as follows: Women and children make up 73% of the total victims of the war. There have been 14,350 child casualties. Additionally, 9,460 women have lost their lives."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Israel–Hamas_war
     
    Lian likes this.
  8. bw19481

    bw19481 Trusted.Member

    And 14000 have been Hamas fighters. The problem I have with the casualty counts in this conflict are 100% of everyone killed are Hamas fighter, children and women. So no civilian males have been killed? No elderly people have been killed? That makes zero sense at all. It is not logical unless 100% of the male population of Gaza is Hamas. Either way in an urban setting considering the total population 20,000 civilian deaths is absolutely astounding. The US ratio in Afghanistan and Iraq was not that good.
     
  9. Athenea

    Athenea Some dream of a beautiful world, others create it. Staff Member

    @bw19481

    UNICEF, 24 October 2023 - In the past 18 days, the Gaza Strip has witnessed the devastating impact of war on children, with 2,360 children killed and 5,364 injured as a result of the relentless attacks - more than 400 children killed or injured every day. This 18-day period is the deadliest escalation of hostilities in the Gaza Strip and Israel that the UN has witnessed since 2006.

    Almost all children in the Gaza Strip have been exposed to extremely difficult and traumatic situations, which have been marked by widespread destruction, constant attacks, population displacement and a severe lack of basic necessities such as food, water and medicine.

    "The killing and maiming of children, abduction of children, attacks on hospitals and schools, and denial of humanitarian access are grave violations of children's rights," said Adele Khodr, UNICEF's Regional Director for the Middle East and North Africa.

    Save The Children, 11 January 2023 - More than 10,000 children have been killed by Israeli air strikes and ground operations in Gaza in nearly 100 days of violence, according to the Gaza Ministry of Health, and thousands more are missing, presumed buried under rubble, according to Save the Children.

    The latest data from the Ministry of Health in Gaza show that more than 10,000 of Gaza's 1.1 million children - or one per cent of the total child population - have died since the 7 October attack on Israel and the assault on Gaza that has followed. Next Sunday, 14 January, will mark 100 days of war.

    Gaza's children who survive the violence suffer unspeakable horrors, including life-changing injuries, burns, disease, inadequate medical care and the loss of their parents and other loved ones. They have been forced to flee violence, often repeatedly, with nowhere safe to go, and face the terror of an uncertain future. Some 1,000 children in Gaza have lost one or both legs, many have had them amputated without anaesthetic, and will require lifelong medical care.

    Save the Children has stated that in the 100 days of violence that began on 7 October, a record number of grave violations against children have been recorded including:

    - 370 schools damaged or destroyed in Gaza, according to UNICEF data.
    - 94 hospitals and health centres attacked in Gaza, according to WHO.
    - More than 1,000 Palestinian children lost one or both legs, according to UNICEF.
    - Some 1.1 million children - the entire child population of Gaza - without access to adequate humanitarian assistance.
    - Abductions of children in Israel and 33 Israeli children killed, according to OCHA through Israeli authorities.
     
    Lian likes this.
  10. Athenea

    Athenea Some dream of a beautiful world, others create it. Staff Member

    @bw19481

    I am providing demonstrable sources for what I post, not personal opinions or deductions, changing reality to suit my ideas or preferences.
     
    Akbloke and Lian like this.
  11. Lian

    Lian Friendly One

    Israel is a terrorist state, just as HAMAS is a terrorist groups. And the Palestinians are the victims
     
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  12. bw19481

    bw19481 Trusted.Member

    I am not saying you are not I am saying that we can not trust the numbers. They come from Hamas and do not add up. Either way, considering that there are about 2.1 million people and only 34,000 deaths in a dense, highly urban environment where the enemy is using the population as human shields that is pretty amazing and goes to show how the IDF is protecting civilians as much as is humanly possible. The US did not have that ratio or civilian to combatant deaths during Iraq or Afghanistan.

    Additionally Hamas can end this today if they would just surrender the last brigade and turn over the hostages. They won't so the suffering will continue until the IDF kills them all.
     
  13. Lian

    Lian Friendly One

    Not just from HAMAS.
    And IDF are savages, they slaughter more civilians than anything. They are experts at war crimes.
    And why would HAMAS surrender? Israeli is INVADING PALESTINIAN LANDS, they jave a RIGHT TO SELF DEFENSE
     
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  14. Athenea

    Athenea Some dream of a beautiful world, others create it. Staff Member

    @bw19481

    You have expressed several ideas that I cannot accept in any way.

    The first would be when you claim that the data provided by me is not acceptable because of its source. But your data is acceptable, regardless of its source. That is, my data is not acceptable because it comes from HAMAS, which is not true, but your data in the assumption that it originates from Israel is acceptable and is an indisputable and unquestionable truth.

    Regarding my data originating from HAMAS I would like you to read the Wikipedia article I posted earlier which states:

    ‘The vast majority of casualties have occurred in the Gaza Strip: more than 34,262 have been killed, 70% of them women and minors. The accuracy of these figures, as well as the number of women and children killed, is debatable. In December 2023, the Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor estimated that 90% of the victims were civilians, while the IDF put the proportion of civilians at 66% of those killed. The death toll comes from the Gaza Ministry of Health and of the total number of dead in Gaza, it is presumed to be higher than reported, and thousands of people are still missing, including those trapped under the rubble’.

    I insist, once again, that I would like to know your sources, because I don't think mine are a cause for doubt, because they are Wikipedia, the UN, UNICEF and Salve the children, and I have insisted that you tell me what they are.

    Personally, I can never accept that a percentage of deaths based on the population of a country should be considered a victory. I personally find it a terrifying idea that such numbers are a comfort to anyone. Put that idea to all the innocent people who have lost family members to indiscriminate and proven attacks, tell that idea to a little child who has been orphaned by the death of his or her parents, tell that child that he or she has Israel to thank because the death of his or her parents is only, say, 2% of the population. Surely that child understands, accepts it and celebrates with a big party. And using the same argument, I do not understand Israel's attack on Palestine, because they only produced about 1,500 dead Jews, if we take into account the proportion of 1,500 of the entire world Jewish population, there was no cause for concern and no reason to attack Palestine. Let's imagine a woman is raped and the police tell her, "it's not important, rapes of women are only 1% of the population of this country". Surely for that woman, she immediately forgets the rape.

    As for comparing the present war with other wars, I would only comment that in this war alone more children have been killed than in all the wars around the world since the year 2020.

    EURONEWS, 13 March 2024, ‘THe number of children killed in Gaza since 7 October exceeds the number of children killed in all wars around the world in the last 4 years, it is a war against children, against their childhood and their future’, by Philippe Lazzarini, Commissioner General of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, UNRWA.

    UNICEF, 24 October 2023 - ‘The killing and maiming of children, the abduction of children, attacks on hospitals and schools and the denial of humanitarian access are grave violations of children's rights,’ said Adele Khodr, UNICEF's regional director for the Middle East and North Africa.

    I imagine that none of these sources are of any value to you, but I provide sources and data and also personal opinions, but with data and sources from globally recognised international bodies that no one doubts.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2024
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  15. Lian

    Lian Friendly One

    IDF are doing a genocide and forcing Palestinians to radicalize
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2024
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  16. buffyfan

    buffyfan Trusted.Member

    Actually? Students dont have the right to "invite" people unilaterally. And University Admins CAN and DO have the authority to "Trespass" people they did not invite on Private Uni Campuses. Admins stand over students period.

    Also, students who have the right to be there dont have the right to put up tents in the Quad and take it over.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2024
  17. buffyfan

    buffyfan Trusted.Member

    I am gonna old man here for a moment. Notice the people screaming "APRARTHEID" about Hamas and Palestinians......... mostly were not born until a DECADE PLUS after the REAL Apartheid ENDED in South Africa?
     
  18. buffyfan

    buffyfan Trusted.Member

    Notice Egypt, Syria and everyone else sealed their borders to Palestinians fleeing there. Something to do with every time they take "Palestinian Refugees" they always seem to attempt to overthrow the government in that nation?
     
  19. buffyfan

    buffyfan Trusted.Member

    And hillariously? The Israeli government seems to not care what the UN and "European Media" says about it.
     
    Lian likes this.
  20. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    The Israeli government doesn't give a shit what anybody else thinks. Why should we continue to give a shit about Israel?

    Declare Israel as a terrorist state and cut off their funding, maybe they'll wake up and realize they are nothing but a piece of dirt that happens to be of strategic value, for the moment.

    I don't find anything in the least bit amusing about the whole situation.
     
    Always-Learning and Lian like this.