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Assault Against the 2nd Amendment

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Affairs' started by Neophyte, Nov 20, 2022.

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  1. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

     
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  2. Lian

    Lian Friendly One

    USA is turning into the wild west because of guns.
     
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  3. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    You've watched too many TV shows and movies.

    The "Wild West" with all these shoot-outs and possies and such is all Hollywood imagination.

    The Wild West really wasn't wild except for what the settlers had to do to cope with nature and landscape.
     
  4. Lian

    Lian Friendly One

    I know the Wild West is fiction. But still, there is a LOT of shootings in the USA, so.. maybe not just fiction now
     
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  5. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    Yes there are.
    But it is a shame that the MSM only report the bad stuff.
    Look online and you can find a bunch of stories where someone protected their own life, or the life of another
    innocent victim by shooting the criminal.

    It goes on way more than the bad guys shotting someone. Funny the liberal media doesn't give the facts that
    owning and properly using a handgun or long gun is a great way to keep your family safe from criminals.
     
    UpNorthChris likes this.
  6. Rubber Ducky

    Rubber Ducky Trusted.Member

    I'm guessing it is too late now. There are a lot of guns in the USA. One can argue there are too many casualties because of guns and one can argue lives were saved due to carrying one around. Every American probably knows someone who was killed by a gun and the same goes for knowing one that saved his/her life with it.

    About 42% of the American households owns at least one gun.

    [insert Lord of War quote]
    How can we arm the other 58%?
    [/insert quote]
     
  7. Lian

    Lian Friendly One

    Oh yeah, because someone, to protect his own life, always has to kill the other, sure.
    Strange, we don't have that problem here in Canada. Oh, right... we are not Gun Fanatics.
     
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  8. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    The Old West, what most call the "Wild West" (also, most dont realize was like the very late 1800s to early 1900s!) was not like the movies. But far from civilized either. Think of it like modern gangs, but with even less cops.
     
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  9. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    It isn't a gun problem.
    That is the biggest misunderstanding all anti-gun people have.

    1) We have a moral and civility problem. There has been a breakdown of proper leadership starting from the parents,
    progressing to the schools, all with a government that has become way too big and is almost 100% ineffective.

    2) We have a big family problem. That is, the breakdown of the family. Corporate greed causing a root problem. The
    destruction of the ethnic family by men who sire children, but refuse to be a father to those children.

    3) Millions of children are not being raised with any guidence of what is right and what is wrong.
    The absolute loss of morality because of that.

    4) Human life is no longer sacred. It is just some "thing" that can be discarded because of inconvenience. People
    shooting others just because someone said something wrong to them. Money owed for illegal drug deals is "fixed"
    by the killing of the one who was "fronted" (someone giving drugs for sale but not having to pay for them up front, but
    rather after the third hand sale).

    Getting rid of all the guns will just put those of us who are law abiding at the mercy of the criminals.
    Look at California, has the strictest gun laws but has had a record # of shootings.

    Chicago, another with laws that make it very difficult to purchase a firearm. But again, the criminals
    don't follow, or care about the law. It has gun violence that is out of control. Both the mayor and the governor are
    worthless in their roles.

    We don't have a gun problem. We have a people problem in that Americans (meaning those in the USA), especially the ethnic,
    in that they (we) are a violent people.
     
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  10. Rubber Ducky

    Rubber Ducky Trusted.Member

    @Dane , the problem you describe isn't solely a USA problem. I do recognise the same description at my side of "the pond".

    We all say the same : "when we get kids, we are not going to raise them like we were raised by our parents". Well, the Millenials are having kids now and the problems are stacking up.

    - the kids are left free without boundaries (kids need rules and boundaries)
    - something as simple as potty trained? Some kids wear diapers when first going to school
    - kids are under huge pressure to perform and be social, facebook, instagram, tiktok, have smartphone and a calendar
    - kids now have to think about their gender, things we did not have to do when I was at school
    - teachers sometimes describe them as little narcists
    - teachers are threatend by parents if they mention something bad/abnormal about their kid
    - kids -- walk outside with huge knives. Not a simple potato peeler but a machette
    - yes we do have stabbings, where those kids attack eachother with knives. Some die
    - suicide of underage is on the rise - and ages 20-25. [dit] Mostly being bullied to death on social media.

    Worryingly, we have more and more kids with what is described as "a backpack". Backpack kids are kids who are diagnosed with a mental disorder (or a collection of disorders). I guess the English speaking part uses the term special needs, but that also covers physical issues. Backpack kids suffer a form of Autism, Asperger, PDD-NOS, ADHD, ADD and the sorts.

    The good thing : we do not have a lot of guns. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2022
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  11. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    To be fair there is also a "tough guy" issue in Red States. They need a Stand Your Ground Law. A law that, no matter how you spin it? Boils down to "I can start a confrontation, then "feel threatened" and because I felt threatened in that microsecond? Draw my firearm and shoot them dead. Then, when going to trial? Invoke that law that lets me isolate the microsecond I feel threatened and downplay the 10, 15, 20 minutes I could have walked away from the argument before that. Because it allows me to isolate the moment I felt threatened as a separate entity to other thing.".
     
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  12. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    To be fair? worldwide? The child suicide rate rose when we stopped letting kids PLAY and started making them have a sport every season. Play an instrument. Have 6 hobbies. 4 volunteer days. Schedule them. When the Yuppies started pretending kids should just be mini adults.
     
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  13. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    You point out some good "defined attributes" of the younger. My post was in more general terms.

    But we agree, it is a social (or really, a parental) problem. Not a gun problem.
    I say that as the availability of handguns to minors is a big problem. But those guns are coming from the criminals who
    make up the gangs and such.
    You say "The good thing : we do not have a lot of guns", but I say people would not agree with that if they are put
    into a situation that a firearm is warranted.
    I KNOW! I have been in that situation and it stopped 2 thugs from entering my home and doing who-knows-what.

    One problem with what I said there, is that people who have never been around firearms, do not even think "If I only
    had a firearm" in stopping the harm that is being done to them.

    In my younger days, the attitude of firearms was that of a tool for hunting and an item used for recreation and
    testing and improving one's skill in competition.
    The use for personal defense was there too, but it was a minor thought, not the main focus.

    Unfortunately, today, the focus of self defense is in the forefront. This has come about solely because ofthe breakdown
    of civility and morality of the populace. Like you stated, the absolute stupidity of how the parents of this, and the one
    past generation are "raising" (or the lack thereof) their offspring.
     
  14. Rubber Ducky

    Rubber Ducky Trusted.Member

    To make things clear, "our thugs" attack with knives. Some do have guns, but those are generaly used to gun down another thug when there is some kind of conflict.

    Posession of guns is possible, but one needs a clean record, the gun (or guns) need to be registered with the police and police make surprise visits to check upon use and storage.

    If you are seen in public, even with something similar to a gun, you will be down on the ground with officers all over you before you know it.
     
  15. Lian

    Lian Friendly One

    Let's make an exemple.
    Take two thugs. Give on a knife, and one a gun.
    See who can kill the most people in the less time.


    Gun = Not a solution but a trouble
     
  16. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted


    OK, so let me get this right from both of you.

    You want the USA to pass more laws than what we have for the control of who gets a gun. I get that, the checks and balances we
    currently have have flaws and some who should not be able to legally purchase a firearm sometimes get them.

    Now, pass a law that everyone must turn in all their guns and re-apply for ownership. In your responses, that would fix it.

    Oh but wait! The criminals won't turn in their guns. So right before the law takes effect, millions of guns will end up in the
    criminal's arsenal, either by law abiding people selling them cheap so they get at least something better than what the
    government would pay-if anything. Or by thievery of every gun they can get their hands on.

    So now, Most all law abiding citizens now have no firearm in order to protect themselves, or others from the criminals assaults, robberies,
    rapes, etc.
    The criminals know this and now can be a brazen as they want, whenever and wherever they want.

    That will fix the civility problem, the breakdown of the family problem, the youth commiting heinous felonies because
    of not being taught how one should act and behave in a polite society.

    OK I am done being sarcastic.

    But I will say again. 52 years ago, I, and others, took my gun to school, gave it to a teacher who, after school, took
    us to a range to teach us how to hone our shooting skills.

    It is not a gun problem, it is a problem of the loss of civility and understanding what is right and what is wrong.
    The American (USA) people have more and more in the past 40 years, reject the teaching of God and are following
    what they decide is a correct way to live.

    Yes I am bringing God into this last part, even though you don't believe that He exists, because when a society
    that was based on Christian Morals and beliefs decide to reject all of that and reject God Himself, will become
    what we have become.

    When the people and the politicians took God out of their lives, who do you think they let in?
     
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  17. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    Universal NATIONAL rules. No more of this State X wants rules, State Y thinks "regulations are COMMUNISM!" (exageration for effect).

    Most people who get illegal guns in NY? Dont get them from NY. They get them from PA. There is no magic disintegration field on the border if you didnt buy guns under NYS law in another state when returning. Know why there are so many gun in Chicago? Not because gun warehouses get robbed all the time. Because? Just a simple 30 minute drive down the highway is the Indiana border with less rules. And like it or not. These straw man purchases happen. I know one side wants to pretend the guy who buys 4 glocks a week, but is a day trader, is a "collector". He is not. He is selling them without a license to people who cant pass BG checks. Until we keep a DB that tracks a serial # from manufacture, to store, to OWNER'S NAME? Straw Man buys can and will happen.

    I also support penalties for the supposed "responsible owners" who's guns end up in crimes (Not their kid, school shooting stuff. Like someone they 'dont know'). Because, the former prosecutor in me goes to one of two places. They SOLD IT to someone and "that is none of the government's business" or it was stolen and "that is none of the government's business". The number of "responsible owners" I have met who leave LOADED weapons out on a counter all day, or loaded on a wall, etc are staggering. Yeah. You can totally defend your home, asleep in bed, when that robber breaks in on the ground floor with the loaded hand gun on the living room counter while you are asleep on the second floor. That robber is totally not probably finding it before you even wake up.
     
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  18. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    That is one of the major flaws in the system.
    Those who purchase mot than - let's say- 4 guns a year, in two or more succession years, should be questioned and show proof
    they have the guns, or put them on a "restricted list".

    Eh, that is generally not the way most burglaries end up with guns stolen.

    Most are not left on the counter, but in a drawer, by the bed table, or some other un-secured place.

    Other than that, it is the long guns hanging on a wall. Some even loaded. Or in a easily broken into displaycase and not a safe.
     
  19. Rubber Ducky

    Rubber Ducky Trusted.Member

    @Dane

    The situation is a bit different if you compare your situation (USA) to mine (European). We never had something like a 2nd Amendment. There were never any laws that gave civillians the right to bear arms. As stated, one can apply for a permit. After scrutineering one might be allowed to own, transport and use a gun. The gun is registered, and checks/surprise visits are in place. You can get a permit if you are a hunter or member of a gun club and a shooting range. Shooting-as-a-Hobby is allowed.

    When the USA was founded, the Founding Fathers wrote the Declaration of Independence. Added to the Declaration was 2nd Amendment. The wording of said Amendment can be debatable, but the general explanation is something like "civillians are allowed to bear arms for defending purposes". There were no ifs, thens, or buts included so the 2nd stood. And still stands. It can't be reversed in any way since there are way too many guns in society and many of them are possesed by thugs. Rightfully, the law abiding citizens refer to the 2nd for their own safety.

    As I see it, the 2nd should have been worded differently, or given an expiration/re-evaluation date centuries ago. It's too late now so the 2nd should remain as it is, wheter one agrees or not.
     
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  20. Dane

    Dane Account Deleted

    Thank you for re-itterating my point.

    It is way too late for any extreme gun law- like some have posted on here- to just "outlaw" all guns as a way to fix anything.
    That's Lala Land thinking.

    There is no possible way to dis-arm the criminal- organization/gangs/individuals.
    No new law to disarm the law abiding citizen will do only that, disarm the law abiding citizens.
     
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