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Ruminations Regarding Religions

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Affairs' started by Insp Gadget, Jan 21, 2018.

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  1. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    Here is my issue with the "God Helps". The "God helps those who help themselves". Definition-ally, it is this, "If you did not succeed? You did not try hard enough to get God's help. If you did, give God the credit for YOUR effort.".
     
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  2. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    Fine. On 2 I propose we follow all the rules of Leviticus. Not just one sentence. No more pork, shellfish, other non Kosher cuts of beef. Look at your clothing. Is it all one type of fabric? If not.......... . How about tats, piercings? All of that are the book ends of the "Man shall not lie with Man" part. Until all the 610 are law, there should be no law based on one line. 610 takes out the three that are logical law. Stealing, killing, false witness.
     
  3. gwcc

    gwcc Trusted Member


    Those are man's laws, not God's. God had 10 laws in the OT. Objecting to homosexuality based on Leviticus alone is misinterpretation of the message of Christ. While homosexuality is also condemned in the NT as a sin, it is not part of God's law. Up until 20 years ago, the vast majority of the citizens of the US considered it abnormal, unnatural and perversion. Engaging in homosexual activities was illegal in most states 30 years ago. That wasn't God's law either.

    Let me also add that you confuse "illegal" (i.e. breaking the law) with "sinful" (i.e. not doing the right thing). It is a fallacy often practiced by those who don't believe or understand.
     
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  4. TriadSibling

    TriadSibling Bro/Sis Enthusiast

    Well put. I agree.

    There are literally thousands of sins, and what most people seem to misunderstand is the fact that sins are not condemned outright, in the Bible. Jesus died so that we may be forgiven, when we do sin, knowing full well that it's human nature to sin on a daily basis.

    Everyone sins, but that alone will not cause you to fall out of favor with the Lord. As you said, it is humanity that has used the concept to sell lies of condemnation to the masses, especially around things that society has chosen to demonize.
    It's the people who sell these lies, who has stained the idea of religion, because they've inserted their impure human nature as gospel.
    It was the same thing with the Crusades; men of power and influence, lied to others, and they used the Bible as not a teaching tool, and a source of hope, but rather as a weapon to condemn those who the corrupted church did not favor. These people were a tool of Satan, using a holy instrument to sell death and corrupt ideas, and the fallout of that can be seen even to this day.
    Even now, people use the Bible as such a weapon, to justify all manner of despicable acts, but it has never been a result of what the Bible teaches; These are people who warp the Bible's meaning to suit their agenda, and sadly, it is that warped meaning that people hear about, rather than the true teachings and lessons in the Bible.
     
  5. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    Actually, according to multiple Rabbis I have spoken to over the years, all 613 are God's Laws.

    Also, they attempt to ban abortion. Make. It. Illegal. Past the Roe ruling. That simply sets the line at more likely viable than not (ie, medically ~24 weeks, not conception). There were actual laws until recently defining the only allowed Marriage as "one man and one woman". And DOMA? Passed to cut off VT at the pass when they were about to legalize Same Sex Marriage in the 1990s.
     
  6. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    Those people include at least every Pope in my time. I really doubt the teachings of Jesus were "if someone violates a minor, move them to another parish or to the Vatican". I have personal doubts that Jesus even wanted a new religion. He was, IMO, attempting to be the JEWISH Messiah. I am also pretty sure that Jesus would support the "confessional seal" when it comes to crimes (by priest or parishioner) and Tax Exempt Churches.
     
  7. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    As to the "most people"? Where did they get that from. Lets skip the "tradition" and "How things were". Because all of that traces back to a Church that, when it took power in Europe, decided it was wrong. Until the Rise of The Church? It was normal and accepted. And the Church, after the first few hundred years is far from hands clean. Forget the Crusades and Inquisitions and Witch Trials (the actual basis for Witch Hunt comes from the RCC). They attempted to conquer any OTHER stream of Christianity held by ANY OTHER King or Duke or other national leader because they were no longer OBEYING Rome.
     
  8. gwcc

    gwcc Trusted Member


    I'm not Jewish so how a rabbi interprets the Bible is not something I give a lot of weight to as they reject the entire second part (NT) as fiction and heresy. That part being the foundation of my faith.

    Regarding abortion: if someone thinks a fetus is a human, endowed by the Creator with the same human rights as all of us, then cutting it up with a blender while still in the womb would be a Godless act. Especially as a fetus has no one to protect it/him/her and no voice in the decision. If someone thinks a fetus is a lump of dividing cells, then they probably don't think this is a Godless act. 200 years ago, the majority of people thought that non-white peoples were less-than-human. This allowed slavery to spread into the 'enlightened' world. It allowed US Army troops to massacre entire native american villages with no second thought to what they were doing.

    An enlightened society supports things that improve the human condition. Embracing death does this how?
     
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  9. gwcc

    gwcc Trusted Member


    I'm not Catholic so I won't speak or defend their leadership.

    Jesus didn't want any specific religion. He wasn't about setting up a religion. He was about showing us how to follow the teachings of God. Man wraps things up in 'religion', not God.
     
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  10. gwcc

    gwcc Trusted Member


    And yet, the Bible was written centuries before 'the Rise of The Church' and condemned it as sinful (i.e. wrong). I've had this argument with many people over the years. From a biological perspective, homosexuality is unnatural. That is simply a fact. Whether or not it is morally wrong or not is up to the individual to decide ( in your words, "accepted"). But it is certainly not normal.
     
  11. curiousFred

    curiousFred Trusted.Member

    Homosexuality occurs not only with humans, in the animal world it is very common.
    Apart from all that it is nobodies business what people do in their bedrooms.
    I happen to be bisexual, was that all my life. My son and daughter are also bisexual, while my wife is straight.
    I feel no guilt, I do not care about so called Christians wanting to throw stones at us sinners.
    I just find it strange that devout Christians manage to suck the joy out of peoples lives.
    Mind your own fucking business.
     
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  12. TriadSibling

    TriadSibling Bro/Sis Enthusiast

    Jesus intervened against a mob that was about to stone a woman, who'd committed adultery. It was at this time he uttered the still-famous phrase "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone".
    And he said that, knowing full-well that no-one on the face of the earth, could say they had not sinned. Everyone is stained in sin. Everyone.
    It's just ironic that so many so-called Christians can't look past that, like Jesus did. Jesus condemned no-one, and instead offered us a way to be forgiven. When will humanity catch up to that?
     
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  13. gwcc

    gwcc Trusted Member


    Common is a relative term. It does not lead to reproduction, which is the primary purpose of sex. Being sexually attracted to someone of the same sex is unnatural. I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong. I'm just saying it's not the natural order of things.

    I agree, what adults decide to do to and with each other, as long as both parties are consenting and no harm is being done, is no one's business but theirs.

    I'm just stating some basic facts about biology and what the Bible says. No stones being thrown by me.

    My opinion is my business. This forum is here to express it, same as yours. If someone else's opinion sucks the joy out of you life, that is really sad.

    As TriadSibling wrote right above me, it's not my place to judge someone. God has given us his laws. We choose to obey or not obey them and that is between us and Him.

    And again, for the record, I'm not saying homosexuality is against God's law. The Bible does call it a sin. But we all sin. Almost all of us, just about every day.
     
  14. buffyfan

    buffyfan Moderator Staff Member

    Edited. Appologies. I missed the last sentence the first time.
     
  15. curiousFred

    curiousFred Trusted.Member

    God is an invention of man, he/she commands nothing, the day humanity dies out, so will all the various deities.
    The bible was written by people who wanted to control the lives and thoughts of others,
    if they resisted they were killed. Ask what happened to the Qatars in France .
    You are welcome to your beliefs, but keep,your opinions to yourself.
     
  16. TriadSibling

    TriadSibling Bro/Sis Enthusiast

    I think it's time to remind everyone that a forum is meant for the sharing of ideas and opinions, and no-one is obligated to agree or disagree about anything. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and opinions, whether we agree with them or not.
    Just remember, everyone, to keep the discussion civil.

    Thank you.
     
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  17. Blu3tooth

    Blu3tooth Trusted Member

    I don't believe. Never have for as long as I can remember, yet I have a degree in religious studies. I agree with Gadget that nothing good could ever come from a semitic God. Let's not forget the Israel's 'lost' tribes are the Arabs, who are semites too. The term Judeo/Christian is more correctly Judeo/Christian/Muslim. Islam is derived from Judaism and heretic Christianties (Nestorian and Arian influences, some even say that Islam is Arab Arianism) and is a semitic religion. I can understand people believing in a god, but not the semitic God. You just have to read their scriptures to know that this God is not worthy of worship.
     
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  18. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    I don't believe in any "god". I do believe that if there ever was one, he was eclipsed shortly (by a few milliseconds) after he created the whatever. From then on, well, we be on our own, as they say.

    I don't mean to offend, but to me, your religion, whatever it is, is nonsense. However, in my profession, "faith" plays a big part - especially when you are faced with the end of your own existance. And so I do understand, in part, that people pray when faced with their own demise.

    It is my opinion (just an opinion) that when we are gone.......we're gone.
     
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  19. Brutus58

    Brutus58 Trusted.Member

    I agree with your opinion. I have the same opinion.
     
  20. blackdog01

    blackdog01 Trusted.Member

    I became a non- believer in my late teens and in the 60 years since then I have never had any fear of death although of course I would like to live for as long as possible. To me indoctrinating children into any religion at an early age and telling them that when they die they will be judged and threatening them with eternal damnation, torture and pain in hell if they don't follow the rules written in a book during the iron age is pure evil.
    Because I believe that death will be the end of my existence and that I shall just be reduced to the organic substances of nature from which I was first formed, I have made it my objective to live my life to the full and do what good it is in my power to do both to my fellow man and the world in general. I have tried, and succeeded to some degree. not to judge others because they are different than me whether be by sexual orientation, colour, creed or beliefs. To me we are brothers and sisters on our journey through life and are here for such a short time to feel the wind in our hair and the sun upon our face.
    Believe in what God or Gods you wish because that is your right and I would never deny that to anyone but my belief is in the wonder of life, the natural world and the advancement of mankind through science and discovery.
    PEACE AND LOVE TO YOU ALL
     
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