Nurse arrested for following hospital policies

No. It means you dont get that HIPPA is "NO patient info of any kind no mater what". That includes "helping them get the warrant" or "working with them" Neophyte. They can not even disclose to the court that there is something there, but they cant say what. They can not legally comment until they have warrant in hand. Does not matter the Police had a reason. They actually had a possible suspicion. Not a reason that would meet PC without violating HIPPA. The police need to get that they are not ENTITLED to what they want, and people do not have to facilitate that. I guarantee the warrant would have been rejected by the judge even if they did help. Because you can not violate law to justify a warrant. And his or her first question would be "Who consented?".

 

You automatically assume that the police is at fault. If you read your own article, you would have realized that the police had no intention of arresting the patient. They had nothing against the patient at all, they weren't investigating him and they weren't going to charge him with anything. That's not why they wanted the sample. You are not trying to understand what's going on. You just want to besmirch the image of the police. You have an agenda.

 

You literally argued that you understand it is illegal to give any info to the Police, but they should have figured out a way to give it anyway because "That is the right thing to do". That is the definition of a "just do what an officer orders because there is obviously a good reason" agenda.

Your arguments recognize HIPPA. Then turn to "But. They should have helped them out anyway.". So the Nurse, Admins should risk their jobs? The Hospital should risk Accreditation? To "give the cops a hand"?

HIPPA is not "Oh if it is not for an arrest it is ok". It is "No information. At all. Period. Stop. End. Unless authorized by the person, next of kin or a warrant." Share with the group what reason they have to demand the sample where you think HIPPA does not apply or gives them a milimeter of room to "help out". You keep saying "They had a reason to want it". But that just does not matter. If it was not enough for a court order (warrant), then they were not entitled to it and no one should risk their jobs so the Cops can have it anyway.

All said and done. I have dealt with stupid cops before. You would be shocked how many times I have had to tell the cops "That guy. Out. Now. No arraignment." when they arrested someone for "Resisting" (not actually resisiting, just not showing the cop 'proper respect'). I also have a lot of cop friends I respect. My issue is the cops who do not get that "I have a badge! And I spoke words. That means THOSE words are the law and the only law!".

 

The hospital staff wasn't asked to draw the blood, just to move aside. The nurse should have backed off once she understood that the police officer intended to violate the law after he was warned.
It's not a good idea to get in the way of someone wanting to perform a criminal act who is determined and carrying a gun.
I don't see how the hospital would have any liability for standing down under those circumstances, after advising the officer that HIS action would violate federal law.
The drawn blood would not be admissible in court. The hospital could just report the crime to the appropriate federal agency.

 

Actually. That is not correct. Their HIPPA regulations work like this if I remember. Their ONLY concern is patient privacy. Not "get out of his way because he decided it was HAPPENING then file a form with someone later". They can get in a lot of trouble for letting him do it at all. What you are referring to is Criminal Liability in "just letting him". HIPPA liability there would have been civil. THey would not be arrested. But people could lose licenses.

The larger problem is what I pointed above. More and more often we have cops who take the "Well. I want! So that is what happens because I said so, and therefore that is the law". PDs need to train cops that they are NOT the be all end all and every utterance does not have to be "Obeyed or else".

I have to ask this. What does everyone here do for a living. I ask because people who don't have to maintain Professional Licenses seem to not always understand the PAGES of things we can lose them for. Under HIPPA? Their only job is privacy. If they revoked her license for a HIPPA violate for letting him do it? She would likely have to retest and requalify depending on state. If she was even allowed. They do not reissue right away. And the Feds can do little about it. She would have lost it from the unconscious person's lawyer's first filing. A suit against the Hospital. And a HIPPA violate is a HIPPA violate. Does not matter if "he had a gun and was determined". The moment she allowed him to draw without consent or a warrant? She violated.

Finally. People do not realize this one. In most places? Once the cops enter the hospital with the suspect and turns them over to a nurse? Like he did? Hospital controls access and takes liability for the patient. Unconcious can not usually be removed without a court order or medical release. While that is true "He was determined and had a gun", that usually does not mitigate professional responsibility when it comes to licenses.

 

Honestly the real problem here is not even the Detective in the end. It was the LT, who should damned well know better, ordering him to do all of that.

 

The police had no intention of doing anything to the patient. The police had no intention of doing anything to the Hospital or its staff. The original suspect was dead and lying on a morgue slab. So the question is, why were the police so desperate to get a blood sample. Why were they willing to violate the law and a persons rights to get it. The police understood that they could not use any information they got for a criminal case. So why did they want it so badly.

 

To answer one of Buffyfan's questions: I'm a nurse. More specifically, a nurse practitioner (as anyone can see by reading my profile page). Even more specifically, an ER nurse, and the head of the ER. Once you enter these doors, my word is law. Not the cops, not the lawyers, not even the doctors. The patients are my responsibility, and until they're sitting up smiling and eating breakfast, their welfare is all I care about.
Now I live and work in Canada, and our respective laws do differ, but the principle is the same - the patient is all that matters, both his well being and his rights. We don't care about the police and what they want, they have no standing in the matter. We'll let them know when they can see the patient.
It's not so much about legal liability, although that is a factor of course. It's about doing the job you signed up to do. And you shouldn't be subject to being assaulted and arrested by some stormtrooper just because you didn't do what he wanted.
Neophyte thinks we have an agenda. If knocking the police off their self constructed pedestal and getting them to "serve and protect" like they swore to when they got the badge instead of strutting around like the gestapo is an agenda, then I guess he's right.

 

That's a damn good question.

 

Another potential problem I just realized. Is the "Internal Investigation" being done by the Captain. Because a LT rank officer was the one giving the orders. Is he even being looked into? Or is he involved with the "internal"? That is the problem with the police policing the police. It is your co workers and drinking buddies, many time in a "confidential" situation, ruling you did nothing wrong. Do not get me started on Grand Juries for cops. Because they are confidential and the jurors can be punished for disclosing the evidence presented, it would be so easy as a prosecutor to "throw it" potentially.

 

So you have lawyers up in the frozen place that come in without legal paper already in hand?

 

I'm sorry, I don't understand your question?

 

I never enter a hospital, in relation to a patient there, without court documents or documents signed by the patient. I am asking if lawyers up there really come to an ER without a "Compel order" for lack of a better term.May just be me and my OCD of get it done.

 

Thanks for clarifying. Not that I'm aware of, I don't recall ever seeing a lawyer walk in and demand anything without going through proper channels, but I'm not an authority on that. We do get the police requesting a blood alcohol level, mostly from traffic accidents, but that is pretty straighforward. If the patient needs urgent care we would draw blood as a matter of course and blood alcohol level is something we need to know anyway. If the patient refused my understanding is that it would be the same as refusing a breathalizer which is automatic guilty under our laws.
I am curious why you would ask as in the case in Utah it was police vs hospital staff, there weren't any lawyers involved that I could tell.

 

Just an update on this case, the latest I heard was that the detective in question was also a part-time paramedic, but has now been fired from that position. This just gets crazier by the minute.