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Embargoes

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Affairs' started by buffyfan, Sep 2, 2017.

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  1. Antares

    Antares The Famous LTD Doggie

    This is the last thing I will say on this matter cause I don't want to get involved in the disputes.

    Personally I am all in favor of Canada First as I am for France First or England First. That's the way it should be. But we all know that international interest and politicians will take over in an effort of get the all mighty Dollar or Pound or Euro.

    International companies don't care one wit about national pride...just the money. That's why I support President Trump's position of America First and why not as her people need good jobs and good wages. The problem is the greedy politicians and internationalist who could care less about national pride.
     
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  2. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    I made no judgement's in my post. I just reported the facts. Bombardier is selling an $80 million dollar plane in the U.S. for $20 million dollars. How is reporting the facts bias? Also since Bombardier is selling their plane for so low a price, they are taking money out of the Canadian citizens pocket to make up the difference in price. Maybe Canadians like giving money away to support big businesses and politicians. If that is what you want to do, you are free to do it. But blaming the U.S. for the Canadian Government for using taxpayer money on such an endeavor is what is not fair.
     
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  3. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    If you believe that, I have some really nice oceanfront property in North Dakota you would be interested in. We'll sell it to you at a discount.

    :cool:
     
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  4. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    If you don't believe those numbers, tell me, what is the normal sale price of a Bombardier CS-100 plane and what was the price that Bombardier sold 18 planes to Delta Airlines for?
     
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  5. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    An awkward encounter above Washington's Pennsylvania Avenue last spring provided early evidence of a rift between the Canadian government and the world's largest aerospace company.
    Representatives of the Boeing Co., wound up hastily leaving a meeting at Canada's embassy after a tense conversation with the ambassador.
    They had arrived to discuss business with the Canadian government. The giant plane-maker has been hoping to add a multibillion-dollar fighter-jet sale to its more than $94 billion US in annual revenues.
    But it so happened this visit fell on the same day Boeing filed a trade action against Canada's largest aerospace player, the far smaller Bombardier. It also happened that the Canadian hosts were given little warning.
    Word filtered up to the top-floor office of ambassador David MacNaughton about an hour beforehand about the trade action, which this week resulted in whopping 220-per-cent preliminary duties on Bombardier sales.
    "(MacNaughton) called them out of the meeting," one source said.
    Two sources say the ambassador delivered a message similar to what's now the Canadian government's public mantra: "I don't do business with people suing me," and, "You shouldn't treat customers this way."
    The Boeing people decided it was better to leave. The meeting was over.
    Allusions to Airbus

    What the Canadian government has heard from Boeing is that the company is torn between two imperatives: completing the military sale with Canada and avoiding what it perceives to be a colossal mistake of its past.
    The company has said this publicly.
    [​IMG]
    Sources say the Canadian Ambassador to the U.S., David MacNaughton, delivered a message to Boeing similar to what's now the Canadian government's public mantra: "I don't do business with people suing me." (Fred Chartrand/Canadian Press)
    In an interview with The Canadian Press, Marc Allen, president of Boeing's international division, said: "We watched another competitor come up and enter the market in a very similar fashion."
    That competitor was Airbus, in the 1970s.
    A consortium of French, German, and U.K. interests, Airbus started small in the U.S. market, with European subsidies propping up its twin-engine and single-aisle planes. But the product lines, and the planes, grew, and by the 1990s the company had become a U.S. giant in its own right, muscling aside smaller players like McDonnell Douglas.
    Now Airbus is aiming for 50 per cent of the American market after opening its first jetliner plant in the U.S.
    Boeing claims to fear a repeat. After Bombardier's sale of 75 mid-sized planes to Delta Air Lines, it launched a complaint based on Bombardier's various forms of assistance from Canadian and Quebec taxpayers.
    Never mind that Boeing is by far the No. 1 recipient of U.S. government subsidies. It drew $14.4 billion US in various forms of assistance since the 1990s according to the website Subsidy Tracker, far more than any other U.S. company and far more than what Bombardier received. The U.S. Export-Import bank is jokingly referred to in Washington as, "the Bank of Boeing."
    Boeing 'fighting for our lives'

    And Boeing doesn't even make planes similar to those Bombardier sold Delta. One Washington critic, Dan Ikenson of the free-market Cato Institute, compares this to a snowplow maker suing a bicycle company.
    What matters is a smaller rival can grow, Boeing says.
    It repeated that cautionary tale of Airbus several times during a day-long hearing before the U.S. International Trade Commission.
    "Airbus in 40 years has an airplane now in every single market segment," said Raymond Conner, Boeing's vice-chairman.
    [​IMG]
    If the ruling is upheld, a duty of 220 per cent will be levied on every CSeries jet that Bombarder sells to a U.S. company. (Ryan Remiorz/Canadian Press)
    "What Airbus did is they entered ... the smaller (plane market)... and then moved on from there... Today we are fighting for our lives to maintain upper 40's or 50 per cent (market share). The impact is real and it sometimes takes many years to materialize.
    "What (Airbus has) done in 40 years, we had to do in 100."
    Washington aeronautics consultant Richard Aboulafia says Boeing is making a grave error. It is antagonizing governments and companies in several countries, including the U.K., where Bombardier has more than 3,000 employees, and angering big U.S. buyer Delta.
    That's not all.
    Industry relies on international trade

    He says it's harming itself in two other ways: jeopardizing future military contracts in those countries and stoking protectionist sentiment in an industry that relies on international trade.
    And Boeing might find out its efforts pointless in the end as the Department of Commerce duty could be overturned by the more historically neutral ITC, or by the U.S. domestic trade court, or other international panels.
    "People said the entire Vietnam War was the triumph of tactics over strategy," Aboulafia said.
    "You could win a battle and then find yourself having outraged (everyone)... Can (Boeing make) an effective trade complaint? Yeah, probably. What are the second-order effects? Oh my dear God, that's a strategic question. (They'd) rather not think strategically."
    He heaps scorn on the idea that this is the ghost of Airbus, stirring again.
    Aboulafia said it's not the 1970s. The planes are different, the market is different and Canada's subsidies to Bombardier are nowhere close to as threatening as an international consortium being propped up by different countries.
    Of the attempt to draw parallels, he says: "That's what you'd think if you had no sense of strategic history."
     
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  6. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    I repeat, what is the normal sale price of a Bombardier CS-100 plane and what was the price that Bombardier sold 18 planes to Delta Airlines for?
     
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  7. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    I don't know, and neither do you, but it doesn't matter. It's none of Boeings business what the planes were sold for. Boeing is not a compeditor of Bombardier, they don't make the same product.
    This is like Peterbuilt complaining that Chevrolet sells their pickup trucks too cheap.

    It's a trade war, and guess what happens in war. Everybody loses.
     
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  8. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    Put America first.

    Bombardier is a Canadian company, but its a world wide company. It has plants in several countries, and it buys parts from a hell of a lot more. Where do you think the parts for the C - series planes are made? Everywhere, including the United States.
    22,000 Americans are employed by American companies that make parts for the C - series aircraft. Right now there are 22,000 Americans who are shitting themselves because they might just be unemployed next week.

    22,000 American jobs at risk.

    Explain to me how the fuck this is "putting America first?"
     
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  9. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    I do know, I was interested so I looked it up.
     
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  10. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

  11. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    If you check all my posts. You will see I have made no claims on whether the dispute is valid or not. I haven't said if the tariff is justified or not. I haven't chosen any side, Canada's or the U.S. I only related the facts as I found them on this situation. Any bias you say I have, was created and given to me, by you.
     
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  12. pussycat

    pussycat Administrator Staff Member

    I don't mean to imply you have any bias, Neo. But the facts are meaningless in these days of "alternate facts", or if you prefer the Canadian term, "American Bullshit", which is what this is.

    Nothing personal intended.

    CC
     
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  13. annab2

    annab2 Trusted Member"It ain't pretty being easy!"

    I love a "GOOD" debate, but being a dually, I was taught that one should never turn, ill will, or a sharp tongue upon neighbours, friends, and family! It is a plain and simple altruistic truth that I live by! Please consider, waxing eleemosynnary, which amongst goodly participants, will always be politely encouraged! We all need to keep to the high road and stay out of the low-rent district. Kissing and making up, really does have great additional benefits!
    :)Anna
    Hugsnkisses-6.gif Hugsnkisses-6.gif Hugsnkisses-6.gif Hugsnkisses-6.gif
    Hugsnkisses-13.gif Hugsnkisses-13.gif Hugsnkisses-13.gif Hugsnkisses-13.gif Hugsnkisses-13.gif
     
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  14. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    Eleemosynnary. I've never seen this word before. I'm going to have to look it up. But I can infer the meaning you are suggesting. :cool:
     
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  15. annab2

    annab2 Trusted Member"It ain't pretty being easy!"

    Neo, it's just a high-powered word for being charitable! After all, charity should begin at home!:)

    :)Anna

    Pssst! Whether you've "seen" it before or not, it has limited usage!o_O
     
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  16. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

    Oh, come on Medieval Latin. giggle.gif
     
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  17. Neophyte

    Neophyte Administrator Staff Member

  18. annab2

    annab2 Trusted Member"It ain't pretty being easy!"

    Yeppers, I watch the BBC! (CBC, too!)
    Leadingaequinetowater-1.jpg
    Leading a horse to water! Not sure whether the horse actually drank!
    :)Anna
     
  19. Antares

    Antares The Famous LTD Doggie

    How about CBBC? That's where you'll find Shaun the Sheep.
     
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  20. annab2

    annab2 Trusted Member"It ain't pretty being easy!"

    Of course, Mister Doggie! But, I generally prefer to keep Shaun the Sheep, on hand in a DVD format to watch at my leisure! :):p;)
     
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